Says the one who doesn't believe God loves His creation enough that He provided a means of salvation for all.
What Jesus do you believe on ?
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Says the one who doesn't believe God loves His creation enough that He provided a means of salvation for all.
yourpoint?
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How do you get this:
From this:
Εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
Can you break it down for me?
It's much more than that.
That's why Jesus said, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
And , "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,
You testify that that there two ways to have everlasting life; by believing on the Son and by believing on the Father who sent the Son.
So if I believe on the Father but don't believe on the Son, do I have everlasting life? Believing on the Father, is believing on the Son, One God.
It's more than that.
Jesus said, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
So who was doing the works that Jesus did?
Who called Lazarus from the grave? The Father.... and The Son; Lazarus was called from the grave by One God.
Show how Jesus said Abraham was still living.
Then why didn't they try to stone Jesus when he said this?
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
"They didn't like the true messenger" because of what they believed he said; they believed he claimed to be Deity
Exactly; "there were too many supernatural events" which is why Jesus said, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
So who was doing the works that Jesus did? The Father. Seems like a bit more than regular conversation.
They wanted to kill him because they thought that he claimed Deity. I showed you, and I didn't need to tweak what Jesus said.
Was Jesus conning them?
He said to them as Jesus, truly truly, I word to ye, prior Abraham happening it, I am he. Can you get you find where it says I am the light of the world?
Nice but the everlasting life (really, the everlasting prosperity) you don't have; and you can't see Jesus anyway.
Again, you don't have it.
Many divine beings, but if you believe it was ALSO Jesus' father, you slip into unitarianism.
John 8:54 The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets as well; and yet You say, ‘If anyone follows My word, he will never taste of death.’ NASB20
John 8:56 “Your father Abraham was overjoyed that he would see My day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” NASB20
6:40 τοῦτο δὲ ἐστιν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντος με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ
Can you tell me how this word ἀναστήσω is different from ἐγείρονται?
No, you are begging the question without the evidence.
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BUMP
yourpoint?
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Abraham being overjoyed to see his day, and it was probably a few minutes earlier in the conversation.
yourpoint?
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What was "prior" Abraham happening? It does not say, prior I word to ye.
What does "I am he" mean?
Prior Abraham being overjoyed.
It means he said I am the light of the world.
yourpoint?
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Overjoyed? When?
John 8:56
yourpoint?
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Genesis 25:8
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[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4
There is only one Jesus. If not, then you have another gospel and another Jesus.
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4
There is only one Jesus. If not, then you have another gospel and another Jesus.
Irrelevant. Abraham watched Jesus and laughed.
yourpoint?
Member
Abraham was dead. Even the Jews could understand that.
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yourpoint?
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It doesn't say that Abraham watched Jesus.
But it is heavily implied. And I did say, Abraham watched.
yourpoint?
Member
Not at all; it says Abraham saw it(his day).
Like I said. Heavily implied.
yourpoint?
Member
That is not what the ones who heard Jesus speak, in that culture, in their language, believed he was implying.
The answering question by those hearers implies that they were thinking something different.
"Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
And...
Jesus's statement was in response to a previous question by those same hearers, "Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?"
The progression of their questions tells us what they were thinking;
Nowhere does it even slightly imply that Abraham was watching Jesus, without totally ignoring the entire context of their discussion.
The whole discussion was about who/what Jesus was:
"Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Their question, "Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?", shows what they thought Jesus was implying,
Therefore, when Jesus answered, "If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.", he answered in direct response to the question, "whom makest thou thyself?".
His hearers knew what he was implying:
That Abraham saw Jesus's day, while Abraham was living, thousands of years before and if they were of their father Abraham, they would know who Jesus was, because Abraham saw it and was glad.
That's why they asked, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
To that question concerning his age, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, (to come into being, to happen, to become) I am (I exist, I am).
They understood totally what Jesus was saying in their own language, and in their own culture.
Therefore, they tried to stone him.
They didn't believe much in the afterlife. And I already told you what I think of John 8:58. Abraham was watching Jesus, and they couldn't handle it.