ECT What is your view of MAD and MADists? (Strictly for people who are not mad)

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Andy is a "Pentecostal/Charismatic. He and his ilk look for signs and wonders. These things they search out cannot be found in this "Dispensation of Grace." I like to think of this period of time as being, "A time of Silence." God is no longer speaking to humanity audibly or visually. The miracles of Paul's time are no longer present. There are no tongues, mass healings, raising the dead, etc. We have the Holy Spirit in the world and we have the "Written Word of God. (The Bible.) God speaks to us through His written Word alone. If one is seeing visions and hearing voices or seeing Supernatural occurrences, they are NOT coming from God.

 

[I.S.I.T.]

Madists please respect the fact that this thread is not for you.

I'm wondering what non mad evangelical christians think of mad.
Do you see it as as a harmless modern opinion of grace with a overweighted interest in Darby flavored eschatology?
Do you see it as a dangerous movement that is more cultish than Christian?

I'm really wanting you to nail your colors to the mast here with an honest opinion.
I'm going to be brutally honest and say that I don't think mad is harmless. I think it's extremely cultish, and should be warned against among fellow evangelicals.
The denial of repentance, water baptism, the born again experience, and removal of two thirds of the new testament directly applying to christians today, makes mad a cult. A gnostic style cult at that.

You may disagree, but don't shrink back from telling us what you really think, even if you're friendly with these people. What do you really think about mad?

I vote a non christian cult. A Christian is a follower of the teachings, sayings and commandments of Jesus Christ, which they say do not apply to them, but only to the 12 tribes of Israel. Also a true Christian is born again of the Holy Spirit, and anyone who has the Holy Spirit would know you that you do not dismiss 3 quarters of the Bible and suggest it is not for you, or to you.

I also came to find out by a few interactions on this forum with them, that many MAD followers also speak contrary to Paul's words as well, so that does not leave them with any more of the Bible left to reject. LOL

 

[whitestone]

"It" what?



What two things? Same day. Same God. Same people. Same devil.




Correct, both established within the same time and era. Both part of the eternal and everlasting Covenant that was established by creation, law, and grace.



Shem proved to be under the new Covenant of Grace and the others remained condemned under the Covenant of Works (Law).



The Abrahamic covenant is the result and part of the new Covenant of Grace.




Right. As said, these remained condemned under the Covenant of Works.

There are only two Covenants. One of Law and the other of Gospel. These have existed simultaneously since the beginning.

Dispensationalists bring confusion into Covenant Theology, by insisting on numerous differences in eras of time, where it is claimed all kinds of doctrines change, come, and go. Not so.

From the beginning, all souls are condemned under the Law (Ephesians 2:1-3) unless and until God in His mercy and grace forgives them through faith under the new Covenant of Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 2:4-10)

This saving miracle has been performed and fulfilled by God since the days of Abel. Genesis 4:4 Many of the saints saved by the grace of God through faith, prior to the Incarnation, are listed in Hebrews Chapter 11.

Some things can be different while still the same . . .

The Law, the Gospel, and God's saving grace never changes.

consider John 8:33 KJV ,,,,that is they were decedents of Abraham(children) yet they were never in bondage(Egypt). So they being children of Abraham were of the circumcision,but not in bondage so they were not descended from Jacob/Israel. So they were Abraham's children i.e. Esau,Ishmael,Jokshan,Medan,Midian,Ishbak or Shuah.

So since they were never in bondage in Egypt, and were never delivered from bondage out of Egypt then they did not partake of the Passover(Moses)nor did they wander for 40 years,receive the law(old covenant)ect.ect. right?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I vote a non christian cult. A Christian is a follower of the teachings, sayings and commandments of Jesus Christ, which they say do not apply to them, but only to the 12 tribes of Israel. Also a true Christian is born again of the Holy Spirit, and anyone who has the Holy Spirit would know you that you do not dismiss 3 quarters of the Bible and suggest it is not for you, or to you.

I also came to find out by a few interactions on this forum with them, that many MAD followers also speak contrary to Paul's words as well, so that does not leave them with any more of the Bible left to reject. LOL

Now, here is a post "not worthy of note." Undoutedly, this man/woman is involved with a serious condition known as, "Ignorance of Truth."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Most likely, One of the BIGGEST problems with posters on TOL is, they have NEVER read and studied the entire Bible cover to cover, word for word, name by name. Why not take the time and energy and decide to read the ENTIRE written word of God? It will take discipline and focus, however, it will be well worth the effort.

I suggest you pray before opening the Bible each time. Pray that God, in Jesus name will give you wisdom and knowledge to understand what you're about to read.

 

[andyc]

Marowbe, stop posting in this thread. I have requested that non madists do not comment. This thread is not for you.

 

[andyc]

I'm not MAD. But, I'm an open theist. In other words, I believe the future is open and mostly determined by man's choices. I've met quite a few TOLers who are MAD. I don't agree with everything they believe. But, I do agree with the majority of what they believe. I don't think MAD is anymore dangerous than my own beliefs. I think that as long as we can agree that Christ is our Savior, the rest will get straightened out in the end when we sit at His feet, learning the Truth from Him.

Open Theism is more philosophical than theological. Madists themselves are split down the middle regarding OT. I know you are pentecostal like me, and they are pretty ruthless with the pentes here, not that it matters to me

 

[andyc]

Any system of dispensationalism is a delusion meant to distract souls from centering their minds and hopes upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. MADists are hyper-dispensationalists, in that they claim only a small portion of the Holy Scriptures contains His Gospel, and omit the rest as not pertaining to His church.

It would take a book to list my objections to this movement . . .

The warning prophecy of II Thessalonians Chapter Two is applicable to your OP.

Yes it's more serious than a lot of non madists here are aware. This is why I'm intrigued at how non MADists view it.
The removal of water baptism, repentance, being born again, two thirds of the New Testament, etc is pretty serious.

 

[andyc]

As far as I can tell, each MADist here is a true Christian. I disagree fundamentally that MADism is, or can be a cult. I see it as a theological school of thought. (My standard for orthodoxy, is explicitly what the papacy, pope, Holy See, magisterium, Catholic Church, Holy Catholic Church and Church teach in matters of faith, doctrine and morals, entirely expressed within the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and so I don't view MADism particularly, as any more or less heretical or harmful than any other non-Catholic Christian view that believes in the Lord Jesus Christ.) I believe there's only one correct and accurate expression of the historical Christian faith, and that expression is the Catechism.

Would you say the same for movements like the Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons?

 

[andyc]

I vote a non christian cult. A Christian is a follower of the teachings, sayings and commandments of Jesus Christ, which they say do not apply to them, but only to the 12 tribes of Israel. Also a true Christian is born again of the Holy Spirit, and anyone who has the Holy Spirit would know you that you do not dismiss 3 quarters of the Bible and suggest it is not for you, or to you.

I also came to find out by a few interactions on this forum with them, that many MAD followers also speak contrary to Paul's words as well, so that does not leave them with any more of the Bible left to reject. LOL

Yeah I'm with you on this.

 

[whitestone]

Marowbe, stop posting in this thread. I have requested that non madists do not comment. This thread is not for you.

how do you define it(M.A.D.) if every Christian says "it" stopped being one way and began another at a certain point and see some as if they are ignorant when there are so many examples of covenants made in various ways throughout the bible? Isn't it just another stopping and starting point,A9D? And wouldn't it behoove one to see it if it is so?

In all reality in A9,10,11,12 even the Apostles,disciples ect. All took a step back and was having a really deep discussion about "hey!!!, whats going on here,somethings different?",,,So its not like the MAD'ist were the first to notice it were they?,lol

 

[andyc]

how do you define it(M.A.D.) if every Christian says "it" stopped being one way and began another at a certain point and see some as if they are ignorant when there are so many examples of covenants made in various ways throughout the bible? Isn't it just another stopping and starting point,A9D? And wouldn't it behoove one to see it if it is so?

In all reality in A9,10,11,12 even the Apostles,disciples ect. All took a step back and was having a really deep discussion about "hey!!!, whats going on here,somethings different?",,,So its not like the MAD'ist were the first to notice it were they?,lol

What I'm interested in, is what not mad folks here think of mad. Whether it's a harmless point of view, or extreme heresy, or somewhere in between.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Marowbe, stop posting in this thread. I have requested that non madists do not comment. This thread is not for you.

If I were to place such a "Personal Restriction" on one of my threads, my thread would be inundated with those I have restricted. You don't have the authority to take over an entire thread. If asked by the Mods to stop, I will obey their command. That's the way it works on TOL. You created this thread so non-MADDESTS could bash MADDESTS and are trying to stop any debate from occurring. That's not really the right thing to do. What if everybody decided who could and who could not post on their thread. Then, everybody would be bashing their opponents and their opponents would have to stand by without any recourse.

 

[whitestone]

What I'm interested in, is what not mad folks here think of mad. Whether it's a harmless point of view, or extreme heresy, or somewhere in between.

OH!,,,Well then the answer is more than clear,it is also scriptural,in Acts 15 the Apostles met with the disciples, Paul,Barnabas ect. and concluded it sound and sent a letter,Silas and Judas out as witness. All there is left then is to believe it,I do.

 

[musterion]

I always get a kick out of these anti-MAD threads written by people who never start a thread defending their own doctrinal systems...pentecostals who never offer proof they have miracles...a preterist who doesn't even try to prove that every prophecy was fulfilled to the letter...Catholics who never tell us why we should obey popes and worship statues. It's all about attacking MAD. Gets really amusing after awhile. Boring, but amusing.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I always get a kick out of these anti-MAD threads written by people who never start a thread defending their own doctrinal systems...pentecostals who never offer proof they have miracles...a preterist who doesn't even try to prove that every prophecy was fulfilled to the letter...Catholics who never tell us why we should obey popes and worship statues. It's all about attacking MAD. Gets really amusing after awhile. Boring, but amusing.

Andy is gonna report you to Must. Yikes!

 

[musterion]

I don't fear what the devil can do to me.

 

[Nihilo]

Would you say the same for movements like the Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons?

I can say exactly what the Church teaches about them, and no more.

 

[whitestone]

I can say exactly what the Church teaches about them, and no more.

You live by another mans faith?

 

[Sherman]

[MENTION=9932]andyc[/MENTION] This board is owned by Open Theists and Depensationalists. You have to learn the live with them as detractors if you are going to open a thread on their forum.