What is the Gospel?

[Ask Mr. Religion]

But, he also addresses the preaching of the cross as being the means of salvation.

1 Cor. 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.​

Yes, he does!

I was answering what I assumed was a specific question about a specific phrase used in the one verse in question. Yes, there is much more in what came before and after that one verse and phrase. I have no idea what is the intent of the asking of the question or if there is some agenda behind it. I only gave the answer that describes what Paul meant by the turn of the phrase he was using.

AMR

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, he does!

I was answering what I assumed was a specific question about a specific phrase used in the one verse in question. Yes, there is much more in what came before and after that one verse and phrase. I have no idea what is the intent of the asking of the question or if there is some agenda behind it. I only gave the answer that describes what Paul meant by the turn of the phrase he was using.

AMR

I don't really care much about intents anymore, but I appreciate your input anytime you care to give it. You're correct, of course, on that specific point. I was just trying to steer it in the direction I was wanting it to go.

Thanks for the affirmation on what I was saying.

 

[Danoh]

What does Paul mean exactly when he says the cross of Christ can be made of no effect?

1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV - [FONT=&quot]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.[/FONT]

First, a thought, PJ...

Personally, I'd rather share with you how to approach sorting that out, out of my conviction that learning how to study a thing out can then be applied to other passages, whenever one is stuck.

But my previous attempt at that was so misunderstood and so maligned and so gone against, together with my continued insistence on the importance of this principle, that I ended up being booted out of the MAD Forum as not being able to play well.

I believe that was everyone's loss, including yours.

It did not and does not have to be.

Unless you just like remaining and needing to be spoonfed whenever you find yourself stuck, or whatever.

I mean all this; it does not have to be that way for you.

Anyway, the short answer is that he is merely asserting that he sticks to the simple task of telling people Christ died for our sins.

Why?

One, because neither fancying all that up; in fact not even signs and wonders (which he mentions later in the chapter) is going to persuade the unbelieving; no sense in going there.

And two, because of the even equally important reason - that built into the simple words "Christ died for our sins" - those very words themselves, contain within them the very power by which Christ rose from the dead!

The whole thing is a wondrous study in itself.

Here is some more of it...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

And some more of that astounding power WITHIN-HIS-VERY-WORDS...

John 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, LAZARUS COME FORTH.

11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Now THAT, bro - is EFFECTUAL WORKING or DYNAMIC Power!

For as He had DECLARED elsewhere...

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

And they are LIFE!

Anyway, hope that helps.

Romans 5:8.

 

[glorydaz]

Paul describes this as the Gospel:

Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures...he was buried...he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and...he appeared to Cephas. and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

and preached it - "Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed."

Where's the justified part? Are you claiming Paul's Gospel does not include justification by faith?

 

[Danoh]

Yes, he does!

I was answering what I assumed was a specific question about a specific phrase used in the one verse in question. Yes, there is much more in what came before and after that one verse and phrase. I have no idea what is the intent of the asking of the question or if there is some agenda behind it. I only gave the answer that describes what Paul meant by the turn of the phrase he was using.

AMR

Actually, he had asked about this part of that passage - "What does Paul mean EXACTLY when he says [that] THE CROSS of Christ CAN BE MADE OF NO EFFECT?"

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Danoh]

Paul describes this as the Gospel:

Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures...he was buried...he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and...he appeared to Cephas. and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

and preached it - "Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed."

No. He adds all the rest of that as a witness of what he is then about to continue to go into - his continued assertion throughout that The Resurrection he had preached and that they had taken him at his word on, had actually been the case - that it had not been some vain (baseless) assertion on his part that they had believed in.

Rom. 5:8.

 

[glorydaz]

First, a thought, PJ...

Personally, I'd rather share with you how to approach sorting that out, out of my conviction that learning how to study a thing out can then be applied to other passages, whenever one is stuck.

Spoiler

But my previous attempt at that was so misunderstood and so maligned and so gone against, together with my continued insistence on the importance of this principle, that I ended up being booted out of the MAD Forum as not being able to play well.

I believe that was everyone's loss, including yours.

It did not and does not have to be.

Unless you just like remaining and needing to be spoonfed whenever you find yourself stuck, or whatever.

I mean all this; it does not have to be that way for you.

Anyway, the short answer is that he is merely asserting that he sticks to the simple task of telling people Christ died for our sins.

Why?

One, because neither fancying all that up; in fact not even signs and wonders (which he mentions later in the chapter) is going to persuade the unbelieving; no sense in going there.

And two, because of the even equally important reason - that built into the simple words "Christ died for our sins" - those very words themselves, contain within them the very power by which Christ rose from the dead!

The whole thing is a wondrous study in itself.

Here is some more of it...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

And some more of that astounding power WITHIN-HIS-VERY-WORDS...

John 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, LAZARUS COME FORTH.

11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Now THAT, bro - is EFFECTUAL WORKING or DYNAMIC Power!

For as He had DECLARED elsewhere...

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

And they are LIFE!

Anyway, hope that helps.

Interesting you're assuming PJ needed that in depth "teaching". I saw it as a rhetorical question in support of the cross being effectual for those who believe. I could be wrong, but I do think you're a bit too quick to assume everyone else is dumb. :chew:

 

[Sonnet]

Where's the justified part?

That word isn't in the quote.

Are you claiming Paul's Gospel does not include justification by faith?

No.

 

[Sonnet]

No. He adds all the rest of that as a witness of what he is then about to continue to go into - his continued assertion throughout that The Resurrection he had preached and that they had taken him at his word on, had actually been the case - that it had not been some vain (baseless) assertion on his part that they had believed in.

Rom. 5:8.

No?

I'm not following you.

 

[glorydaz]

Actually, he had asked about this part of that passage - "What does Paul mean EXACTLY when he says [that] THE CROSS of Christ CAN BE MADE OF NO EFFECT?"

Rom. 5:8.

Now you're assuming AMR is dumb. Why don't you just stop playing the big shot, and address posts like a normal person. I know you can do it. Step down off your podium. It doesn't become you.

 

[Danoh]

Interesting you're assuming PJ needed that in depth "teaching". I saw it as a rhetorical question in support of the cross being effectual for those who believe. I could be wrong, but I do think you're a bit too quick to assume everyone else is dumb. :chew:

I never said he is dumb - that is you doing what I knew you would even as I posted that to him. I knew you would once more read your ignorance and animosity into my intent.

The response to which you then accuse of being out of pride on the other side's part.

I wish it were not that way with you, but that is how you are and that is what many have continued to fail to convince you of.

Please, feel free to have the last word. There is no addressing you on this issue of yours, you might actually look at objectively.

Rom. 5:8.

 

[glorydaz]

That word isn't in the quote.


No.

It's not in the quote because the quote is only part of Paul's Gospel. It wasn't in there, but he was reminding them of what he'd preached before. As I already explained about 18 times. On Paul's first missionary journey, when he turned to the Gentiles, he preached his gospel of grace. Saved by Grace through Faith. He always preached justification by faith when he preached his Gospel. It's an essential of his message. Eph. 2:8

Acts 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.​

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:​

 

[glorydaz]

I never said he is dumb - that is you doing what I knew you would even as I posted that to him. I knew you would once more read your ignorance and animosity into my intent.

The response to which you then accuse of being out of pride on the other side's part.

I wish it were not that way with you, but that is how you are and that is what many have continued to fail to convince you of.

Please, feel free to have the last word. There is no addressing you on this issue of yours, you might actually look at objectively.

Rom. 5:8.

Gosh, you knew what I would do before I did it. :bow:


Of course it couldn't be because I hold out hope you might learn to control yourself, and not constantly be finding fault with other people. That you might eventually be taken down a few notches so that your inordinate pride was not so off putting. :chew:

 

[glorydaz]

Unless you just like remaining and needing to be spoonfed whenever you find yourself stuck, or whatever.

Case in point.

 

[Danoh]

No?

I'm not following you.

The issue the Apostle Paul is addressing is their having been convinced by someone, that their belief in The Resurrection, had been in vain - that there was therefore in fact, no resurrection for them either, simply because Christ Himself had never risen from the dead, to begin with.

Towards addressing THAT two-fold issue, he first reminds them that he had based his words to them on that, on the Scripture itself.

Now, he is not asserting that they were who the Scriptures had been talking about - a mistake some within MAD make.

Rather, he is asserting that he had been instructed to apply those Scriptures concerning Christ's having died for sins, to them also.

That is a Dispensational Distinction but is another topic within all that.

Anyway, he then moves on from his first assertion there, to add to it the further distinction that various people - then alive back then that anyone could have checked with - had actually been eyewitnesses of the Resurrection of Christ that Paul had preached to these Corinthians.

He then moves on from that, into more of what he is actually addressing - the two-fold issue not only that Christ DID rise from the dead, but that as a result - THEIR resurrection was a SURE promise.

Re-read the chapter; see if these two things, are not the things he is merely breaking down to them ONCE MORE (for he is merely reminding them of what he had preached unto them, back when he had first met them).

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Sonnet]

It's not in the quote because the quote is only part of Paul's Gospel. It wasn't in there, but he was reminding them of what he'd preached before. As I already explained about 18 times. On Paul's first missionary journey, when he turned to the Gentiles, he preached his gospel of grace. Saved by Grace through Faith. He always preached justification by faith when he preached his Gospel. It's an essential of his message. Eph. 2:8

Acts 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.​

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:​

He also explicitly states what he said before, that it was believed and that he continued to preach it. Part of this includes the phrase, 'Christ died for our sins.'

He explicitly calls it the Gospel so you are forced to admit it as so.

 

[Sonnet]

The issue the Apostle Paul is addressing is their having been convinced by someone, that their belief in The Resurrection, had been in vain - that there was therefore in fact, no resurrection for them either, simply because Christ Himself had never risen from the dead, to begin with.

Towards addressing THAT two-fold issue, he first reminds them that he had based his words to them on that, on the Scripture itself.

Now, he is not asserting that they were who the Scriptures had been talking about - a mistake some within MAD make.

Rather, he is asserting that he had been instructed to apply those Scriptures concerning Christ's having died for sins, to them also.

That is a Dispensational Distinction but is another topic within all that.

Anyway, he then moves on from his first assertion there, to add to it the further distinction that various people - then alive back then that anyone could have checked with - had actually been eyewitnesses of the Resurrection of Christ that Paul had preached to these Corinthians.

He then moves on from that, into more of what he is actually addressing - the two-fold issue not only that Christ DID rise from the dead, but that as a result - THEIR resurrection was a SURE promise.

Re-read the chapter; see if these two things, are not the things he is merely breaking down to them ONCE MORE (for he is merely reminding them of what he had preached unto them, back when he had first met them).

Rom. 5:8.

? I think you must have misunderstood my post. I simply said that Paul's, 'Christ died for our sins,' formed part of the Gospel.

 

[patrick jane]

What do you say, PJ?

To me it means the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. The cross has no effect for those who do not believe the Gospel...which is the preaching of the cross.

1 Corinthians 1:18

That and what AMR said, that's what I was thinking.

 

[Danoh]

? I think you must have misunderstood my post. I simply said that Paul's, 'Christ died for our sins,' formed part of the Gospel.

That IS Paul's gospel.

Beyond that, the rest is "instruction in righteousness."

As in Romans - he builds up towards that into the end of Romans 3, and then proceeds to address different issues in relation to, and or that, that simple truth, is based on, and or that relies on it.

The gospel of Christ really is that simple - "that Christ died for our sins."

In short, Romans 5:8.

 

[Sonnet]

Rather, he is asserting that he had been instructed to apply those Scriptures concerning Christ's having died for sins, to them also.

Indeed.