What is the Gospel?

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I totally have my personal stance too... and I’m certain you each know it... but I’m trying to hold the unity line for now. It seems [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] is having trouble that there is Human Disunity on this matter... so I’m struggling to move past Disunity.

In the end... [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] alone can choose the stance he truly believes... and honestly... I believe he has... but is simply diving back in where he is most curious...

All my best to all of you...

EE

 

[Lon]

Nope.

I realized that about you. Wasn't necessarily for your benefit, but that IS what I believe Spurgeon meant.

 

[musterion]

Eye,

If someone is not convinced God exists, much less exists as He reveals Himself in the Bible, then arguing with such a person from the Bible, much less from the POV that it is the actual Word of God, is an utter waste of time. It is for them, at best, just another human book of morals. They can take it or leave it, they can pull out parts they like and discard the what they don't. Doesn't matter because the prime issue - God Himself - is not settled so any deeper conversation on any subsidiary issue is just noise. That's all I was trying to say.

 

[Lon]

We'll have to disagree on this. I believe he said he is doubting whether God exists. Unless and until THAT is settled, every other point of discussion is pointless.

He did, but from what I'm getting, he doubts that an evil God exists.

 

[musterion]

He did, but from what I'm getting, he doubts that an evil God exists.

I didn't see him make that distinction but IF he's like most, no matter what is offered he'll endlessly refer back to any number of OT passages to "prove" that the God of the Bible is, indeed, "evil," which would simply indicate his mind is already made up.

 

[glorydaz]

Because of those who will? Someone had once told me that Calvinism/Arminian are opposite sides of the same coin. On one side "chosen from the beginning of the word" on the other "all who call upon the name of the Lord will be Saved." That was the first time I'd ever heard that Calvinism and Arminianism are the same, but opposite sides of the same coin.

It's like walking into a room with a sign over a door which reads, "Enter for eternal life."

When you walk through the door and turn around, you see another sign over the door that reads, "Chosen from the foundation."

:surf:

 

[George Affleck]

If Calvin was correct in asserting that man is dead in his sins and unable to turn to God, why does Jesus enjoin folk to do just that; even to those he explicitly describes as not his sheep?

John 10:36b-38
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

(Verses 25-26 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.)

If they cannot do as Jesus invites them to without Godly regeneration then Jesus is...I hesitate to say it...merely toying with them. But, it seems to me that he is earnestly imploring them to believe, even suggesting that they focus on the proof of his works.

But Jesus did not say that they could not become part of His sheepfold. In fact, He said they could, by simply believing on the works/miracles that He did.

We choose to accept the forgiveness of sins by the blood of Jesus and, when we are translated into His kingdom, we look around and realize that, unknown to us, God was in it all the way.

Jesus enjoins dead men who are unable to come to God to do just that, not because they are able, but by the regenerating power of God. God can do what they cannot.

 

[George Affleck]

Notice that by the power the Father gave Jesus, Lazarus came back to life after being dead for four days.

Such is the power of God over those who are called.

 

[Nanja]

But Jesus did not say that they could not become part of His sheepfold. In fact, He said they could, by simply believing on the works/miracles that He did.

We choose to accept the forgiveness of sins by the blood of Jesus and, when we are translated into His kingdom, we look around and realize that, unknown to us, God was in it all the way.

Jesus enjoins dead men who are unable to come to God to do just that, not because they are able, but by the regenerating power of God. God can do what they cannot.

You are preaching a false gospel of works a person does to get himself saved.

Salvation is exclusively by God's Electing Grace Eph. 1:4-7; 2 Tim. 1:9!

The natural man's own choosing or believing is likened to filthy rags Is 64:6: A work of the flesh that cannot please God Rom. 8:8!

For the only Believing/Faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22!

1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

 

[intojoy]

If Calvin was correct in asserting that man is dead in his sins and unable to turn to God, why does Jesus enjoin folk to do just that; even to those he explicitly describes as not his sheep?

John 10:36b-38
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

(Verses 25-26 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.)

If they cannot do as Jesus invites them to without Godly regeneration then Jesus is...I hesitate to say it...merely toying with them. But, it seems to me that he is earnestly imploring them to believe, even suggesting that they focus on the proof of his works.

Regeneration follows faith. This is what Calvinism doesn't admit. Because their doctrine requires regeneration before faith. But according to scripture, a man first believes and then is saved.

The reason Christ proclaimed that the gospel be preached to everyone is because the atonement made all men savable. Yet only those whom Christ chose are going to be saved and those that God passed over will not be saved. Those that are chosen are given divine enabling to exercise their will to believe the Gospel and those who are not chosen cannot believe the gospel because their sin nature doesn't allow for faith in the gospel.


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[glorydaz]

But Jesus did not say that they could not become part of His sheepfold. In fact, He said they could, by simply believing on the works/miracles that He did.

We choose to accept the forgiveness of sins by the blood of Jesus and, when we are translated into His kingdom, we look around and realize that, unknown to us, God was in it all the way.

Jesus enjoins dead men who are unable to come to God to do just that, not because they are able, but by the regenerating power of God. God can do what they cannot.

There is POWER in the Word, so there is POWER in the word...the preaching of the word...the Gospel.

Which is why Paul tells us that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

So then we are brought to that "Aha moment". I say it isn't one or the other...God reaching down or man reaching up, but it's simultaneous. God is constantly drawing, and man is more and more in need of reaching up to his Creator. When the moment is right......

 

[glorydaz]

Notice that by the power the Father gave Jesus, Lazarus came back to life after being dead for four days.

Such is the power of God over those who are called.

But we aren't dead. We are only condemned to death.

 

[George Affleck]

There is POWER in the Word, so there is POWER in the word...the preaching of the word...the Gospel.

Which is why Paul tells us that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

So then we are brought to that "Aha moment". I say it isn't one or the other...God reaching down or man reaching up, but it's simultaneous. God is constantly drawing, and man is more and more in need of reaching up to his Creator. When the moment is right......

I am simply suggesting that, from man's perspective, it takes 2 rails to carry the salvation train. From God's perspective, it's a monorail.

Which is a good time to share one of my favourite songs.

 

[Sonnet]

You are preaching a false gospel of works a person does to get himself saved.

Salvation is exclusively by God's Electing Grace Eph. 1:4-7; 2 Tim. 1:9!

The natural man's own choosing or believing is likened to filthy rags Is 64:6: A work of the flesh that cannot please God Rom. 8:8!

For the only Believing/Faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22!

1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

If you are correct, why does Jesus enjoin folk to do the very thing you say they cannot; even to those he explicitly describes as not his sheep (indeed, those who have just attempted to stone him)?

John 10:36b-38
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

(Verses 25-26 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.)

 

[Sonnet]

But Jesus did not say that they could not become part of His sheepfold. In fact, He said they could, by simply believing on the works/miracles that He did.

I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

 

[Sonnet]

Regeneration follows faith. This is what Calvinism doesn't admit. Because their doctrine requires regeneration before faith. But according to scripture, a man first believes and then is saved.

The reason Christ proclaimed that the gospel be preached to everyone is because the atonement made all men savable. Yet only those whom Christ chose are going to be saved and those that God passed over will not be saved. Those that are chosen are given divine enabling to exercise their will to believe the Gospel and those who are not chosen cannot believe the gospel because their sin nature doesn't allow for faith in the gospel.


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You appear to be saying that all men are savable but that not all men are savable.

1. The reason Christ proclaimed that the gospel be preached to everyone is because the atonement made all men savable.
2. Yet only those whom Christ chose are going to be saved and those that God passed over will not be saved.

 

[Sonnet]

LOL...."the true author". You give mankind way more credit than I do. Have you ever read the Bible?

I have read it, yes. I'm just continuing to highlight the division that exists within Christianity right down to the Gospel itself.

Jesus, Himself, tells us that. I can't help it if some have "outsmarted" themselves, and claim "whosoever" doesn't mean what it does.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

And yet those that oppose you assert that your Gospel is false.

 

[intojoy]

You appear to be saying that all men are savable but that not all men are savable.

1. The reason Christ proclaimed that the gospel be preached to everyone is because the atonement made all men savable.
2. Yet only those whom Christ chose are going to be saved and those that God passed over will not be saved.

The cross is not the only saving instrumentality. It is part of the salvation package that includes calling, election and faith. There are millions of people who lived and died without hearing the gospel. Just because they did not hear the content of faith required for salvation does not mean that the atonement disqualifies them as rendered savable.

God chose to allow that one man's sin would bring sin and death upon every human being and has equally chosen to render every man savable by the righteousness of another Man Christ the Lord.

According to scripture no one can come to the Gospel unless the Father draws him. I was drawn, I'm elect, I'm born again.



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[glorydaz]

And yet those that oppose you assert that your Gospel is false.

I don't think so.

The Gospel is what it is.

Where is the disagreement on the Gospel?

In fact, as I recall, Lon listed out what the Gospel is, and how there is agreement.

There are some things surrounding the Gospel that provides some controversy...perhaps that's what you're talking about.

 

[Sonnet]

I don't think so.

The Gospel is what it is.

Where is the disagreement on the Gospel?

In fact, as I recall, Lon listed out what the Gospel is, and how there is agreement.

There are some things surrounding the Gospel that provides some controversy...perhaps that's what you're talking about.

Nanja accuses GA of a false Gospel here.

Truster has made similar accusations.

Both are considered Christians here.