ECT What is Preterism

[Danoh]

By using the word "wash" you've immediately swerved into analogies about salvation. I get the idea that something was dirty and needed to be cleaned, but justification is much more powerful and specific than that. "Washed" may miss what's going on.

Justification is from the root of words that have to do with the final day of justice, of righting all wrongs. After the gospel was accomplished, Paul could say that God was "now just--and justifier of the person who has faith in Jesus." The righteousness of God was made known in the Gospel so that men could be justified. Rom 3. All wrongs must be righted, but most of us, if we are honest, are overwhelmed in things we cannot fix.

In other words, the Gospel event was PART OF the eschaton--the events of the end of time. It was a merciful moment in which the Judge of all sees the predicament of the guilty race and says, 'hold on, I'll go down and stand in their place.' This 'going down' to do this for us will justify us of our sins before him, so that he can accept us. It is as though the horrors of the judgement day have been moved forward and are behind us. It was still horrible--by any account of the suffering of Christ--but now we can see that that was done for us and we are justified from our record through him.

His righteousness is then credited or transferred to our account! This is very different from changes in us personally, although we do change personally because of it. You see an explosion take place a mile away, but then later the sound shock hits you. They are two different things, but they are related. The crediting of righteousness is what the reconciliation (of accounts) is about in 2 Cor 5.

Because of this we can conclude a few things:
1, God take his law very seriously
2, absolutely nothing outside the work and sacrifice of Christ can justify us from our sins
3, justification is how God can accept us which is much more the question than whether we can accept Christ. God cannot accept sinners. But if their account is credited with a perfect, infinite righteousness, they can be accepted and they can change.
4, 'accepting Christ' has the role of a property seller accepting a counter offer or final offer. It is an agreement that #1--3 above are the basic reality of the situation we are dealing with. It is not work as in the labor toward that purchase but it is needed to have closure, a necessary agreement.

:up:

Excuse the icon :chuckle:

 

[God's Truth]

By using the word "wash" you've immediately swerved into analogies about salvation.

You are badly mistaken not knowing God or the scriptures.

If Jesus does not wash you, YOU HAVE NO PART IN HIM.

John 13:8 "No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me."

I get the idea that something was dirty and needed to be cleaned, but justification is much more powerful and specific than that. "Washed" may miss what's going on.

Nothing Jesus says will steer us wrong!

Justification is from the root of words that have to do with the final day of justice, of righting all wrongs. After the gospel was accomplished, Paul could say that God was "now just--and justifier of the person who has faith in Jesus." The righteousness of God was made known in the Gospel so that men could be justified. Rom 3. All wrongs must be righted, but most of us, if we are honest, are overwhelmed in things we cannot fix.

In other words, the Gospel event was PART OF the eschaton--the events of the end of time.

No. People could be saved then, and NOW!

How can you deny the many scriptures that speak of being saved NOW?

 

[Interplanner]

You are badly mistaken not knowing God or the scriptures.

If Jesus does not wash you, YOU HAVE NO PART IN HIM.

John 13:8 "No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me."



Nothing Jesus says will steer us wrong!



No. People could be saved then, and NOW!

How can you deny the many scriptures that speak of being saved NOW?

??? the people I'm referring to are saved in their now. I was removing justification from the realm of an analogy about personal change (washed) because it is not that. It is about a person's sin debt account and whehter it has been cleared. This is a different matter from their personal change and transformation. One is cause and one is effect. I'm not being complicated here, I'm speaking from much experience.

 

[God's Truth]

??? the people I'm referring to are saved in their now. I was removing justification from the realm of an analogy about personal change (washed) because it is not that. It is about a person's sin debt account and whehter it has been cleared. This is a different matter from their personal change and transformation. One is cause and one is effect. I'm not being complicated here, I'm speaking from much experience.

What don't you get about you must obey Jesus and repent of your sins if you want to be saved, washed, justified?

 

[Interplanner]

What don't you get about you must obey Jesus and repent of your sins if you want to be saved, washed, justified?

That you have reversed cause and effect. You find out the infinite glory of justification and that makes you WANT to do all the other things.

 

[God's Truth]

That you have reversed cause and effect. You find out the infinite glory of justification and that makes you WANT to do all the other things.

You are badly mistaken. Jesus justifies those who come to him in belief and obedience.

See John 14:23, and Acts 5:32.

You are backwards.

Can you imagine Jesus justifying people who did not do what he says to do to get justified?

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, there are responses, but the responses do not have merit to them like Christ's sacrifice for us. They are not in the same category. Why would God see a prayer of admission of sin as much value as the trauma Christ went through?

You have reduced justification down to a moment in a person's life, when it is the declaration of God for all those who believe that comes from the greater scene of the day of judgement. The basis upon which God justifies a sinner is Christ. It is not the response of the sinner, and the sinner must acknowledge that.

 

[God's Truth]

You have reduced justification down to a moment in a person's life, when it is the declaration of God for all those who believe that comes from the greater scene of the day of judgement.

Prove I have done that! Prove it now. You can't prove it. The only thing that you have proved is that you do not consider the scriptures and my explanations. You merely repeat yourself.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, there are responses, but the responses do not have merit to them like Christ's sacrifice for us.

Do you know who Jesus is?

Jesus IS the WORD OF GOD.

Do you know what that means?

That means everything JESUS SAYS---everything Jesus says---IS the words of God.

If you do not do what Jesus says, then how do you think you will ever gain access to his sacrifice?

 

[Danoh]

Prove I have done that! Prove it now. You can't prove it. The only thing that you have proved is that you do not consider the scriptures and my explanations. You merely repeat yourself.

He was NOT attacking you.

 

[God's Truth]

He was NOT attacking you.

I couldn't care any less about your false statements on this site.

 

[Danoh]

I couldn't care any less about your false statements on this site.

Not that you are capable of doing so, but think it through, you incompetent - why would I even defend Interplanner's intent when I am obviously so often at odds with where he is so often looking at things from?

But as I have already noted - you are incapable of seeing how unaware you are of your cluelessness.

Yours is one of the worst cases of "two and two is five; don't tell me I said it was not four" that I have seen on TOL.

As a result, a would be ally is perceived by you as your enemy.

You are clueless of how clueless you really are.

:doh:

 

[ClimateSanity]

Not that you are capable of doing so, but think it through, you incompetent - why would I even defend Interplanner's intent when I am obviously so often at odds with where he is so often looking at things from?

But as I have already noted - you are incapable of seeing how unaware you are of your cluelessness.

Yours is one of the worst cases of "two and two is five; don't tell me I said it was not four" that I have seen on TOL.

As a result, a would be ally is perceived by you as your enemy.

You are clueless of how clueless you really are.

:doh:

She is part of an online cult. It's all about power. I'm talking about the ability to run people's lives by making them feel sinful and thinking of you as pure and holy and worthy of following. That must be an amazing rush of power to feel.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Yes, there are responses, but the responses do not have merit to them like Christ's sacrifice for us. They are not in the same category. Why would God see a prayer of admission of sin as much value as the trauma Christ went through?

You have reduced justification down to a moment in a person's life, when it is the declaration of God for all those who believe that comes from the greater scene of the day of judgement. The basis upon which God justifies a sinner is Christ. It is not the response of the sinner, and the sinner must acknowledge that.

I wish I would have written that!

I'm so jelly!


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

 

[God's Truth]

She is part of an online cult. It's all about power. I'm talking about the ability to run people's lives by making them feel sinful and thinking of you as pure and holy and worthy of following. That must be an amazing rush of power to feel.

Is there someone here who enjoys the truth that I speak here? Have I helped someone to be saved? Has someone gotten closer to the Lord by something I said? Do they have more understanding?

I have not seen this for myself. I think this would be too good for me to fathom.

No one even knows my real name, they do not even know for sure if I am a man or a woman. How do you think I can be followed?

I am just trying to get people to be able to have what I have.

Jesus says he will reveal himself to those who get his teachings and obeys.

Jesus revealed himself to me.

I am sure that I am an enemy of Satan.

The Holy Spirit convicts and you must be feeling that conviction.

Why not humble yourself instead of just feeling defensive?

 

[Right Divider]

The reason it stands is because 2P2P does not. 2P2P is a complete mistake.. The inability to accept that is why the coward closed 'what gospel was Paul saved under?' (trying to validate 2 gospels, instead of the arrival of the one).

Fallacious logic again. No wonder that you can't think straight.

BTW, the coward the you're talking about does NOT take the MAD position.

Also, there are many gospels in the Bible.

 

[Danoh]

GT; behavioral science has long since established as fact that by their very makeup (genetics), men and women cannot but use words differently.

I am always talking about what the recurrent patterns of a person's words point back to.

I have been talking about behavioral science.

Words, even in writing, are verbal behavior; every bit as much as other forms of behavior.

In fact, thanks to that science; once when I was negotiating with someone about something; I was able to determine accurately when they were lying through their teeth :chuckle:

Through certain, recurrent patterns, I first isolated while talking to them, and then watched for when; our negotiations began.

It appears "psychic" but is nothing more than watching for and then noting "the things that differ."

Watch this clip...ask yourself as you watch it - 'what kind of skills would I have to look into getting better at, in order to be able to read someone like that?'

In other words, trace back thru his recurrent patterns, what they point back to about what skills and or principles he appears to be relying on.

The following video clip is from a tv show based on an actual unit of agents within the FBI - the cases cited are real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DtEq2LjyAI&app=desktop

 

[ClimateSanity]

So sinful to watch worldly TV. If she wants to keep up her holy and obedient shtick, that would be her reply.

 

[Danoh]

So sinful to watch worldly TV. If she wants to keep up her holy and obedient shtick, that would be her reply.

I doubt she is that bad. One needs to know about the weather; about current events; about the direction of the world that tv is so easily a good market of...

Unless I have read her recurrent patterns wrong :chuckle:

 

[ClimateSanity]

I doubt she is that bad. One needs to know about the weather; about current events; about the direction of the world that tv is so easily a good market of...

Unless I have read her recurrent patterns wrong :chuckle:

I think you know how I feel. I won't spoil your view. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.