Yeppers.
The Word was not created.
The Word has always existed WITH God and IS God.
What is God's first creation?
- Thread starter keypurr
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The Word was not created.
The Word has always existed WITH God and IS God.
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I don't have to. The Bible just says it plainly and your reject truth.
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The house heretic disagrees with the Bible.
It's time (in my opinion) for a long-term ban on this Christ rejecter that just keeps bashing the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
keypurr
Well-known member
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
These verses question your thoughts.
The son is the EXPRESS IMAGE of YHWH. YHWH is a SPIRIT not a man. I see this as the logos (word). The logos is a created form of God. The logos became one with the body prepared for it.
The son is the EXACT IMAGE, ALL IMAGES are creations. The spirit son is a creature not God. He is a created form of God. He was given the power of his God.
I believe that John 1:1 has been corrupted by the Greek to English translations. It is the most misunderstood verse in the Bible.
keypurr
Well-known member
You spreading false tales again RD.
I disagree with the common interpretation of scripture that the churches hold on to.
I do not bash my God or my Lord, you just are unable to see truth. You believe in the errors of the early RCC fathers over the words of Christ.
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The Greeker heretic only goes to "the Greek" if he can pervert a verse. The GREEK work TRANSLATED "express image" has NOTHING to with modern use of the ENGLISH word IMAGE as in photograph or picture.
G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image
Compare: G1125, G1504
See also: G5480
What does CHARAKTER mean old heretic?
You always want to change God's Word, but that's what unbelieving heretics do.
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You're on the outside looking in.
John 20:26-29 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:26) ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you. (20:27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (20:28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (20:29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
Thomas was correct and you are dead wrong.
(no doubt you'll "re-translate" that too, heretics got to heretic)
CherubRam
New member
I have noticed that you forget all of the facts that are presented to you.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I agree, and that includes language.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Peter's confession: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Mt16:16KJV) is an encapsulation of the Trinity. Peter confesses that the Lord Jesus is God, and the particular way in which He is God, is that He is 'the Son of the Living God,' and in no other way, which leaves only the Trinity as an option. And that's what the Church (today's 'Catholic Church') has ALWAYS taught and believed. Christ then told Peter, "thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" (Mt16:18KJV), which means that He would build His Church upon both the man Peter, and upon Peter's confession, which was that God is the Trinity.
SonOfCaleb
Active member
None of those scriptures you've quoted support your position nor refute mine so not sure why you've quoted them.
Bearing in mind the context of the verse in colossians i qouted is very clear
who do you think this passage is referring to - He is the image of the invisible God if it is not Jesus. Who else represents the image of God himself that could also be described as the first of Gods creative works?
keypurr
Well-known member
The Son of a King is NOT the King, the Son of YHWH is not YHWH.
To many shortcuts were used in the Greek to English translations.
keypurr
Well-known member
Compare: Heb 1:3
(Bishops) Who beyng the bryghtnesse of the glorie, and the very image of his substaunce, vpholdyng all thynges with the worde of his power, hauing by him selfe pourged our sinnes, hath syt on the ryght hande of the maiestie on hye:
(ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(Geneva) Who being the brightnes of the glory, and the ingraued forme of his person, and bearing vp all things by his mightie worde, hath by himselfe purged our sinnes, and sitteth at the right hand of the Maiestie in the highest places,
(GNB) He reflects the brightness of God's glory and is the exact likeness of God's own being, sustaining the universe with his powerful word. After achieving forgiveness for the sins of all human beings, he sat down in heaven at the right side of God, the Supreme Power.
(ISV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty
(KJV) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NAS77) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NASB) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
(NKJV) who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NRSV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
It seems many translators agree with me.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Your theory has been disproved...but you will not let go of your pride. You wear this so called revelation you have with a badge of honor.
Pretty simple isn't it.
drbrumley
Well-known member
I don't see a thing about Jesus being created in this text, nor any text for that matter.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Even a 1st grade sunday schools child knows how simple this is.
keypurr
Well-known member
Why are you trying to skirt around it? Everything was made through the Son so the SON is God's first creation. The Son himself is a creation for he is am IMAGE. Col 1:15 says he is a creature. He is a created FORM of the Father and the Father was pleased that the son contained his fullness.
Proof you can't dispute.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Are you understanding my view and why I have it?
CherubRam
New member
The bible is not always translated correctly. Yahwah created this world for Yahshua.