What is "Faith alone ?"

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Don't disagree with you Jamie.

Like i said to truster , Faith as the noun is at best barely understood. But Faithing the verb , their is no understanding of it. It's all because the English language had no words for the translators to use to translate the Greek verb form of the noun Pistis (Faith). That word in the Greek is pisteuo. We should have had the words faithe , faither , and faithing , for those translators. But those words are not in the English. So they used the words believe , believer , and believing. And really by no fault of their own , people built their relationships with Christ on those mistranslated words. I can show over a dozen concrete facts that support this mistranslation , but, those words are in the texts and are not easily forsaken. The reason , every thing people know is riding on those words believe , believer , and believing ,

I think trust and trusting fit much better to Greek meaning and would have caused less confusion.

 

[Truster]

Again truster , like alot of what you've said.

Let me try to find more common ground.

You said ,

"Faith and belief are inherent in man and can be summed up as a psyching up of the mental attributes."

I say ,

Your absolutely right , and , what you've stated is a basic understanding of what "Faith" (or faithing) is in the human life. We fulfill thousands of acts of Faith or faithing every day . Every time we fulfill an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidense , thats an act of Faith or faithing.

We perform a dozen acts of faith just getting out of bed in the morning. But none of those things are NT saving Faith or faithing (pisteuo). Only a specific act , based upon a specific belief , sustained by a specific confidense will produce a relationship with Christ.

What is the complete Nt understanding of how we faithe (pisteuo) into Christ?

The act ? It's right there in the Vines Greek dictionary , "A personal surrender to Him". What are we surrendering? Our lives.

The act? , based upon what belief ? Based upon the belief God will accept , care fore , maintain , and complete , the surrendered life. The act , based upon a belief is on "JESUS" not His Word , "HIm"!

What is The sustained confidense ? Again , it's right there in the Vines Greek dictionary for the word pisteuo used 248 times in the NT. First , it states ,"A personal surrender to Him " , and then there is a second part of "pisteuo" after the surrender , and it says , " And a life inspired by such surrender ."

In other words , the specific sustained confidense is while were making all the daily decisions , we are making them filtered through the fact that our life is not our own anymore but His. These decisions not only fulfill the "trust" you spoke of , but shows God that our surrender is genuine , not perfect , but genuine.

You mentioned the Hebrew , which is one of the worst languages on the planet. They had two pictorial words for Faith or faithing.

One , "Running to the shelter of o mother birds wings." Emphasis on the the act of continual running to a specific gtoal.

Two , "The leaning on a staff". Emphasis on the continual leaning on a staff (Christ) with "all" your weight behind it.

Both of these examples support "pisteuo" and the definitions that are available in the Vines Greek dictionary . The Greek being the most precise a best language on the planet.

Just scratching the surface here truster. I get excited when i come across someone who sees Christ in similar ways as myself. Hope to here more from you on what i presented.

If you can't or won't stop this faithing nonsense I can't read your posts. We are told not to add to the scriptures, but you have gone a stage further by making up childish words. Grow up and stick to the scriptures. They are sufficient and if correctly translated or transliterated illuminate very well indeed.

Forthright maybe, harsh never.

 

[Faither]

I think trust and trusting fit much better to Greek meaning and would have caused less confusion.

Remember were talking about the specific word the ancient writers used to tell us "how" we can become "in Christ" and have a relationship with Him. That word is "pisteuo"

Pisteuo in the Vines : "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

Pisteuo in the Strongs : "pisteuo means "not" just to believe."

Lets take the opinions out of it and just stick to the intent behind what the writers were specifically communicating.

But just for fun , follow up with trust and trusting. Who and what are you trusting in ? This will tell us if "trust and trusting" are better guides.

 

[Faither]

If you can't or won't stop this faithing nonsense I can't read your posts. We are told not to add to the scriptures, but you have gone a stage further by making up childish words. Grow up and stick to the scriptures. They are sufficient and if correctly translated or transliterated illuminate very well indeed.

Forthright maybe, harsh never.

It's cool, i misread you , not the first time.

I've been learning Gods Word for 30 years at a Stanford university level. And i've had the experience i'm trying to share with you.

The word faithing was real close to the first thing we were told by our Dr.of theology. Like first day at school information. If we weren't aware of the mistranslations , we would never be able to understand His Word.

I don't create the truth , i'm just baring witness to it. All my facts are solid , but if you can get past the words faithe , faither , and faithing, address the things you want to discuss.

 

[Nang]

Remember were talking about the specific word the ancient writers used to tell us "how" we can become "in Christ" and have a relationship with Him. That word is "pisteuo"

Pisteuo in the Vines : "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

Pisteuo in the Strongs : "pisteuo means "not" just to believe."

Lets take the opinions out of it and just stick to the intent behind what the writers were specifically communicating.

But just for fun , follow up with trust and trusting. Who and what are you trusting in ? This will tell us if "trust and trusting" are better guides.

How about "rest" and "resting?"

 

[Truster]

Trusting in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.

What else?

 

[Faither]

Trusting in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.

What else?

Remember were talking about the specific word the ancient writers used to tell us "how" we can become "in Christ" and have a relationship with Him. That word is "pisteuo"

Pisteuo in the Vines : "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

Pisteuo in the Strongs : "pisteuo means "not" just to believe."

Lets take the opinions out of it and just stick to the intent behind what the writers were specifically communicating.

 

[Faither]

How about "rest" and "resting?"

Why can't you just accept what the Greek tells us?

The Greek language is the best form of written or spoken communication known to man. (language)

You don't need to improve on it.

Rest and resting does have a place in the journey.

 

[Nang]

Why can't you just accept what the Greek tells us?

The Greek language is the best form of written or spoken communication known to man. (language)

You don't need to improve on it.

Rest and resting does have a place in the journey.

There is no problem with the Greek; there seems to be a problem with the formula you are attempting to establish from an English definition of the Greek.

Your suggestion of "surrendering" does not accord with "belief" or "resting."

For "surrendering" is a human action. And no sinner is saved according to his human actions, assent, deeds, etc.

Sinners are saved by faith alone.

By God's power, actions, will, and works, alone.

And even after being regenerated to new life and faith in the Savior, sinners are kept sanctified by His power, actions, will, and works, alone.

There is no synergism between God and man, in the miracle of salvation. None.

Sinners are Justified by faith, alone. Ephesians 2:8-10

" . . We are His workmanship. . ."

 

[Truster]

Faith alone means that salvation is by Christ alone.

We who are saved have ceased from our own works and have entered into his rest. We are resting in his work and in his righteousness for our salvation, Hebrews 4:10.

We* are resting because of salvation not for it.

We* Redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

Maybe one day you'll have this experience Roberto.

 

[Faither]

There is no problem with the Greek; there seems to be a problem with the formula you are attempting to establish from an English definition of the Greek.

Your suggestion of "surrendering" does not accord with "belief" or "resting."

For "surrendering" is a human action. And no sinner is saved according to his human actions, assent, deeds, etc.

Sinners are saved by faith alone.

By God's power, actions, will, and works, alone.

And even after being regenerated to new life and faith in the Savior, sinners are kept sanctified by His power, actions, will, and works, alone.

There is no synergism between God and man, in the miracle of salvation. None.

Sinners are Justified by faith, alone. Ephesians 2:8-10

" . . We are His workmanship. . ."

Faith is something "we do".

your not making any sense. You say the Greek definition is right and then say i'm wrong when i repeat the definition.

Do you understand that we fufill thousands of acts of Faith every day?

Pisteuo is the act , that if we fulfill continuously , will result in being in Christ.

Just "believing" , just "trusting" that He will fulfill all His promises in His Word to you (even though pisteuo is surrendering your life to Him and its not your life anymore) will result in NOTHING!

 

[Faither]

We* are resting because of salvation not for it.

We* Redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

Maybe one day you'll have this experience Roberto.

I would love to hear how you became in this state of rest. Could you share how you became "in Christ?"

 

[Truster]

I would love to hear how you became in this state of rest. Could you share how you became "in Christ?"

I started a thread on my experience of salvation and it was deleted.

 

[Nang]

Faith is something "we do".

your not making any sense. You say the Greek definition is right and then say i'm wrong when i repeat the definition.

Do you understand that we fufill thousands of acts of Faith every day?

Pisteuo is the act , that if we fulfill continuously , will result in being in Christ.

Just "believing" , just "trusting" that He will fulfill all His promises in His Word to you (even though pisteuo is surrendering your life to Him and its not your life anymore) will result in NOTHING!

You deny saving faith, fella . . .

Which is totally monergistic.

 

[God's Truth]

You deny saving faith, fella . . .

Which is totally monergistic.

Saving faith is faith that is not dead. Saving faith is faith with right action. See James 2:14, 17, 22, and 24.

 

[way 2 go]

Specifically address the facts i've presented. There is no such thing in the Nt as just belief.

faith only

Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

 

[way 2 go]

Even Abraham's faith was tested.

Genesis 22:1 Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." 2He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

James 2:21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

so .

Abram's righteousness came by faith alone

 

[God's Truth]

so .

Abram's righteousness came by faith alone

Abraham's faith was living because of what he did.

That is what the scriptures say.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Remember were talking about the specific word the ancient writers used to tell us "how" we can become "in Christ" and have a relationship with Him. That word is "pisteuo"

Pisteuo in the Vines : "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

Pisteuo in the Strongs : "pisteuo means "not" just to believe."

Lets take the opinions out of it and just stick to the intent behind what the writers were specifically communicating.

But just for fun , follow up with trust and trusting. Who and what are you trusting in ? This will tell us if "trust and trusting" are better guides.

Trusting in would seem to have a strong implication of relationship. Trusting Him personally and what He says obviously includes submission to Him in the context of the New Testament.

 

[Faither]

Trusting in would seem to have a strong implication of relationship. Trusting Him personally and what He says obviously includes submission to Him in the context of the New Testament.

How and what are you trusting Him ?