What is "Faith alone ?"

[God's Truth]

Calvinists go against obeying God because they say we cannot obey.

Jesus says to obey him.

Calvinists say, "No, I cannot obey you, save me first".

Those who are faith alone believers go against obeying Jesus too.

Jesus says to obey him.

Faith only say, "I will believe in you, but I cannot obey you until after you save me".

The Calvinists and Faith Alone believers are in a competition with each other on who obeys God the least!

To believe and teach that we cannot obey is not right.

 

[Nang]

Some clarification offered . . .

Calvinists go against obeying God because they say we cannot obey.

Reformers teach that all men fall short of the glory of God. No man can obey the moral demands of Holy God. Thus, no souls can be saved through following the Law. Romans 3:9-19

Jesus says to obey him.

Yes. It is His command. From the beginning of creation, God has commanded man obey His will and Word. But no man can.

That is the reason and necessity for The Savior.

Calvinists say, "No, I cannot obey you, save me first".

No man says this, let alone a Calvinist. Romans 3:11

Those who are faith alone believers go against obeying Jesus too.

This terminology needs correcting:

Only Reformers teach Justification by faith alone.

You speak of the MADists, who are not "faith alone," but are really "grace only" believers.

They think salvation comes by grace, once and for all, and that they live by grace only forever after. They do not believe they sin or have to follow the Law in any way. It is a different belief than what the Reformers teach.

The Calvinists and Faith Alone believers are in a competition with each other on who obeys God the least!

"Grace only" MADists are offended by any talk of obedience. They practice lawlessness.

Reformers teach that obedience follows Justification. Sanctification is a holy lifestyle of obedience. Obedience cannot earn God's mercy, but obedience is the natural result and evidence that God has bestowed His saving grace to a sinner.

Obedience is the manifestation of faith and repentance, which only comes from being born again (regenerated) by the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit.

To believe and teach that we cannot obey is not right.

Unsaved souls cannot obey.

All men need The Savior, Jesus Christ, who alone DID perfectly follow and obey all the Law, on behalf of His church.

Saved souls can obey, and your teaching would be correct, if only applied to saved souls. Not obedience to gain points with God, though, but obedience for the pure joy of serving His righteousness.

 

[Lon]

Calvinists go against obeying God because they say we cannot obey.

Romans 8:8

Jesus says to obey him.

Not in the flesh, however. He told Nicodemus clearly, he needed to be born again.

Calvinists say, "No, I cannot obey you, save me first".

Correct Romans 8:8 Romans 7:24

Those who are faith alone believers go against obeying Jesus too.

No. We all of us, are all saying that works is the result of the Lord Jesus Christ See Ephesians 2:10 John 15:5 Colossians 1:17 1 Corinthians 4:7

Jesus says to obey him.

He does, but pay attention to 2 things. 1) Israel had no other way to God. The old way was to obey and make sacrifices in the temple. 2) The gospel is against that. Being right with God is no longer by obedience to the Law or animal sacrifices.

Faith only say, "I will believe in you, but I cannot obey you until after you save me".

True.

The Calvinists and Faith Alone believers are in a competition with each other on who obeys God the least!

No, not even the MAD crowd believes this. They simply 'obey' for the right reasons. It isn't because salvation is being held over their heads. It is because with a new nature, we want to. It isn't even 'works' per say. See Ephesians 2:10 It is a joy. Even the Lord Jesus Christ said His burden was easy and His yoke was light.

To believe and teach that we cannot obey is not right.

We aren't teaching that. Rather we are teaching that obedience is not connected to Salvation as something we can do to 1) get salvation or 2) keep salvation.

 

[Faither]

Pay particular attention to Ephesians 2:10. Do you see anything unique about it?

I see alot in that Scripture . Let me ask you a question.

Is that our state of being before we are "in Christ" , before His spirit is sealed into us and we are in Him ?

 

[Faither]

Here are some facts and then maybe someone can show me where i'm not understanding correctly.

To me "Faith alone" , makes no sense , and this is why.

1) Faith is pistis in the Greek and is the noun.

2) The corresponding verb to that noun in the Greek is pisteuo.

3) Pisteuo is an action word something we do ,as is the definition of a verb.

4) pisteuo in the Vines is defined as "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

So are the "Faith alone" people saying that all we need to do is continually surrender ourselves to Christ in mind and deed ? Because that would make perfect sense to me.

Please keep to the topic of Faith.

Please address each of the 4 facts i've presented.

 

[Lon]

I see alot in that Scripture . Let me ask you a question.

Is that our state of being before we are "in Christ" , before His spirit is sealed into us and we are in Him ?

It would have to be after. Consider Romans 7:14 and Romans 8:8

 

[Lon]

Please keep to the topic of Faith.

The discussion is still on this topic, and closely. Just a reminder?

Please address each of the 4 facts i've presented.

In a nutshell, faith is a description of trust and is always a verb. When it is a subject, it is still talking about the act.
Imho, the best way to handle your question points is to pool them back into being a verb. When the Lord Jesus Christ says 'your faith has saved you,"
wasn't it actually the thing she/he had faith in that did this? IOW, wasn't the Lord that actually saved them? You and I could theoretically 'make' faith with someone who doesn't trust (have faith) in us. Theoretically, we could do things against their will, like putting them under and operating on them, to save them. God, however, works by faith. Actually, today, someone has to consent to surgery. The patient's "faith" in the doctor is then part of what 'saves' them. If that makes sense.

 

[Faither]

It would have to be after. Consider Romans 7:14 and Romans 8:8

Right , so if you haven't yet accepted what is defined by the Greek writers use of the word "pisteuo" , the Spirit of Christ , Christ , and His Word can't be yours yet.

 

[Faither]

The discussion is still on this topic, and closely. Just a reminder?


In a nutshell, faith is a description of trust and is always a verb. When it is a subject, it is still talking about the act.
Imho, the best way to handle your question points is to pool them back into being a verb. When the Lord Jesus Christ says 'your faith has saved you,"
wasn't it actually the thing she/he had faith in that did this? IOW, wasn't the Lord that actually saved them? You and I could theoretically 'make' faith with someone who doesn't trust (have faith) in us. Theoretically, we could do things against their will, like putting them under and operating on them, to save them. God, however, works by faith. Actually, today, someone has to consent to surgery. The patient's "faith" in the doctor is then part of what 'saves' them. If that makes sense.

Lon , i like the direction your going , but can you take each one of my four points in the Op , and tell me if you agree with them or not?

 

[meshak]

James says he will show his 'faith' (not salvation) by his 'works.'
Would you agree that one can read 'faith' as 'what I believe'? If I share Christ with another but have nothing appreciable to shine Christ, then my 'faith' and witness is dead. Does that, however mean I am not a Christian? Am unsaved? I haven't found that part in James. Can you find it for me? Shouldn't we only be reading what the Bible says, and not what we are 'afraid it might say?' IOW, if it is this important, we better be VERY sure the bible says what we think it says.

James says faith without deeds is dead. Dead faith cannot save you.

 

[meshak]

The Calvinists and Faith Alone believers are in a competition with each other on who obeys God the least!

.

this is brilliant. Makes me laugh every time when I see it.:first::chuckle:

 

[meshak]

Correct. Justification is by faith, alone, but Sanctification will evidence holy and obedient practice.

See a post regarding this here.

what are you saying? what's your point.

Are you saying obedience is not necessary to be saved?

 

[Nang]

Are you saying obedience is not necessary to be saved?

Yes.

We are saved by grace alone.

Obedience follows as the evidence and witness, that indeed we have been saved by the grace of God, alone.

 

[meshak]

Yes.

We are saved by grace alone.

Then we are not in the same path.

You guys are spreading false gospel.

Jesus never said faith alone saves.

It is Paul's teaching.

It is obvious your Lord is not Jesus, it is Paul.

 

[Faither]

Yes.

We are saved by grace alone.

Obedience follows as the evidence and witness, that indeed we have been saved by the grace of God, alone.

FINALLY !!!!!!!!! You told the truth of what your relationship with Christ really is. " Grace alone" , that is exactly what you are try to do without fulfilling NT pisteuo.

Lets just get rid of Faith and faithing all together .

 

[God's Truth]

this is brilliant. Makes me laughs every time when I see it.:first::chuckle:

Haaaa! Thank you Meshak!!

 

[Epoisses]

FINALLY !!!!!!!!! You told the truth of what your relationship with Christ really is. " Grace alone" , that is exactly what you are try to do without fulfilling NT pisteuo.

Lets just get rid of Faith and faithing all together .

We receive grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone. It's a package deal.

 

[Epoisses]

Then we are not in the same path.

You guys are spreading false gospel.

Jesus never said faith alone saves.

It is Paul's teaching.

It is obvious your Lord is not Jesus, it is Paul.

Go back to law-keeping for noobs, young padawan. Your not ready for the red light saber with the side burners.

 

[meshak]

Go back to law-keeping for noobs, young padawan. Your not ready for the red light saber with the side burners.

Keep your mumbo jumbo to yourself.

 

[Epoisses]

Keep your mumbo jumbo to yourself.

They gave you the green light saber and you cut your foot off with it. This isn't a game, it's real and the enemy doesn't play.