ECT What Is Dispensationalism; really?

john w

john w

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I agree with most commentators who say minority, extreme views are often wrong, and the views of the larger Body often stand the test of time as biblical.You have a thinly veiled arrogance. We need conviction and humility, to speak truth in love, not pride.Equally capable, godly believers have said the same for eons while holding divergent views (all cannot be right despite thinking they are).It amazes me that a few here scornfully reject those who know biblical languages and have studied with discipline for years (not to mention great minds in church history for centuries) in favor of their partially informed opinions (and then make it a salvific issue?!). Experts are not always right, but they are not always wrong.

Some have a thinly veiled arrogance in their pontifications.I disagree with theological synergism vs monergism, and your myopic assumptions, and you underestimate the Johannine themes, in context, and display an ignorance of Pauline/Johannine theology and historical chronology. I suspect further research will show why MAD is not a credible belief among NT scholars (Moe, Larry, Curly, Curly Joe, Shemp, etc. are not in the same league as famous NT scholars or the many unknowns in conservative seminaries).Cults redefine terms (semantical barrier). A proper translation with sound exegesis will not lead to your wrong views.

Who is your rabbi?

Someone remind me....what was the subject again?
 
john w

john w

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musterion said:
Fido of Uz, 4rd century church father, eminent historian and witness to Christ's destruction of Jerusalem, rebukes your man-made MADness.
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You really think "father," in "church father," is literal? And that there is a man made Jerusalem in the future? One verse, Galatians 4:26 KJV, destroys your man made "invention." You follow the teachings of men. You're in denial.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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musterion said:
You guys have out-Tetted Tet. Well done.
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Actually, it was a copy and pasting somebody else.

godrulz said:
Physical, temporal issues are analagous, not identical, to spiritual issues. There is a cooperative element in reconciled, reciprocal love relationships (or universalism and OSAS would be true).
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godrulz said:
This is a license to sin and confusions perfect provision with subjective appropriation/application of it. The NT does not teach what you are saying.
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godrulz said:
Regeneration is monergistic, but that does not mean there are not manward conditions to receive grace in addition to Godward provision/grounds.
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godrulz said:
Check out other versions. We cannot save ourselves, but God will not save everyone unconditionally (universalism). Likewise, POTS has a conditional element since there is a relational vs metaphysical issue.
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Tambora

Tambora

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Danoh said:
At its' most basic level, Dispensationalism is simply Distinctions in Identities or Things That Differ.
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Peter & the Eleven
Offered the Davidic kingdom

Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

Acts 3:18-21 “But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began
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VS.


Paul
Mystery, Grace

Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles; 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship [dispensation] of the mystery, which has been hidden from the of ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.





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Tambora

Tambora

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Danoh said:
Things That Differ.
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Works
Acts 10:34,35 Then Peter opened hismouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.


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VS.


No Works
Romans 4:4,5 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.




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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Peter & the Eleven
Offered the Davidic kingdom

Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

Acts 3:18-21 “But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began
​


VS.


Paul
Mystery, Grace

Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles; 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship [dispensation] of the mystery, which has been hidden from the of ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.





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The Davidic kingdom did come because Isaiah said the things promised to David were transfered to Christ, as quoted in Acts 13.

The times of refreshing did come because it was about the arrival of the Spirit of God so that the mission of God would explode out to all nations.

'Christ must be received until the restoration of all things' is a declaration about justification by faith--about Christ's indestructible value. If he is recieved/accepted back to heaven, we have justification from sins. That will be true until everything on earth is restored--not on this earth but by the creation of a NHNE, as per 2 Pet 3, which is why there is nothing Judaic (land, temple, worship system) there.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The Davidic kingdom did come because Isaiah said the things promised to David were transfered to Christ, as quoted in Acts 13.

The times of refreshing did come because it was about the arrival of the Spirit of God so that the mission of God would explode out to all nations.

'Christ must be received until the restoration of all things' is a declaration about justification by faith--about Christ's indestructible value. If he is recieved/accepted back to heaven, we have justification from sins. That will be true until everything on earth is restored--not on this earth but by the creation of a NHNE, as per 2 Pet 3, which is why there is nothing Judaic (land, temple, worship system) there.
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Judaism could not see what was mysterious to them because they made the Law part of their trinity. Rabbi Prager teaches the trinity of Judaism is God, the Torah, and the land. Because of that blinder, they could not see how OT prophecy would be fulfilled without an intact Torah and 'eretz. So when Paul came along saying it was happening apart from Law and 'eretz, he was (to them) 'against our law and traditions.'
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nick M said:
So Paul is wrong in Romans 10 and 11?
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Nick,
is this in response to what I said about Judaism? That's who Paul was speaking of in Rom 9-11. From 10B forward, it is all about getting Jewish people to be active in the mission of the Gospel because they have background that would help, but they don't do it because they don't believe.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Danoh said:
Things That Differ.
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The Law

It is hard not to notice how the law is viewed with such words as holy. good, and perfect throughout the OT and into the NT writings.
And how there was great zeal to keep the law.

But when we get to Paul .......
The law is viewed as a curse, a ministration of death, and a yoke of bondage.
And how one should relieve themselves of that yoke.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
The Law

It is hard not to notice how the law is viewed with such words as holy. good, and perfect throughout the OT and into the NT writings.
And how there was great zeal to keep the law.

But when we get to Paul .......
The law is viewed as a curse, a ministration of death, and a yoke of bondage.
And how one should relieve themselves of that yoke.
Click to expand...


So where do we differ?
 
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