What is "Crucified with Christ"? AKA the infamous Meat and Milk seals debate

[john w]

Explain it then.

So, everyone can see it if lines up with what the bible says about it.

"Some of us allow the bible to interpret itself.....Like I said, I will let the bible interpret itself."-GP

 

[graceandpeace]

the cross is where self-centered life dies,and GOD-Centered Life begins.

Are you saying you can give up your will, in order to be saved? If so, please read post above. The carnal man cannot please God, cannot do anything according to the WILL of God without the Holy Spirit.

We are saved not by giving up our will, but, by believing the gospel, in faith; faith means, by hope...hope means, we are not yet assured, for our hope is hope in things unseen, then He comes to live in us; and we THEN can see; we are no longer blind; and He begins the work of maturing us by love.

"I once was blind, but NOW, I see".

You do not see, until you receive the Holy Spirit; you do not see before then....you are blind....but, the blind man does take a leap of FAITH, to be saved.Do you understand?

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Are you saying you can give up your will, in order to be saved? If so, please read post above. The carnal man cannot please God, cannot do anything according to the WILL of God without the Holy Spirit.

We are saved not by giving up our will, but, by believing the gospel, in faith; faith means, by hope...hope means, we are not yet assured, for our hope is hope in things unseen, then He comes to live in us; and we THEN can see; we are no longer blind; and He begins the work of maturing us by love.

"I once was blind, but NOW, I see".

You do not see, until you receive the Holy Spirit; you do not see before then....you are blind....but, the blind man does take a leap of FAITH, to be saved.Do you understand?

I know that it's all GOD from the beginning unto the end. "Through" Christ "By" His Spirit living within me.

 

[graceandpeace]

I know that it's all GOD from the beginning unto the end. "Through" Christ "By" His Spirit living within me.

amen

..........then, it is not likely that you would fall for the false gospel that your flesh can work it up....and, that you can die to sin, without the aid of the Holy Spirit...WINK.

 

[rocketman]

I mean this:

Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


I thought I already posted this, but perhaps you didnt read it, or grasp what it says?

Yes, I agree...my take is though that you begin this 'daily' dying to self, once you have learned the full will of God for your salvation, which is to be able as a mature man, to know the difference fully between good and evil:

There is quite a big difference between "Discerning" and "Know" your words and your proof text don't jive.

 

[graceandpeace]

There is quite a big difference between "Discerning" and "Know" your words and your proof text don't jive.

Sigh...never mind.

You cannot discern if you do not know..you silly billy.

Btw, instead of just spam, why don't you offer some explainations, or give some verses that back your silly views?

Why do you deny this?


Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

You wanna explain how you mortified the deeds of the body, before you received the Holy Spirit?

This is what I am claiming..it is NOT possible, it is written it is ONLY done by the Holy Spirit..yet myriad liars on this board claim they did it in order to GET saved.


I speak the truth; those who are not in the truth, hate it.

..as they hate me...would most likely kill me, like they sought to kill Paul for speaking this truth even in his day.

SAD.

 

[MrDeets]

Howdy Mr Deets:

Yo!

Salvation is one event...as I have said...not two...or three, or four, or etc...there are stages of maturity within it, however, and this is what I am speaking of.

Okay.

We are born again as a babe, and we grow in grace and in knowledge, agree?

Yup.

Peter said, grow in what?

Paul said the same...there is one spirit; and it speaks truth.

Paul said, 'put on the fulness of the stature of Christ', I already gave that verse in another post, so go read of it...we are not mature in knowledge upon initial salvation, and we can only have assurance once we are a mature man.

Okay.... I'm still with you.

No, once you are mature; you can never again stumble...so if you are still unsure, you are not yet mature; but you are saved, and so the commandment would be, to continue to grow in grace and knowledge unto the mature man.

:dizzy: So, hypothetically, I can learn to live without ANY "sin"... or NEVER stumble? I believe this as well, but not because of anything I do or learn. Your focus is always on you. You call MAD fleshy, but continually talk about what "we" must DO, and how we have to mature, or gain knowledge... :blabla:. You, more than ANYONE on this site, IMHO focus on what must "be done"- yet you cannot see it.

Only when one surrenders his full will to God, can a man be complete. WE do not do this upon initial salvation, for we must have the HOLY SPIRIT IN ORDER TO GET IT DONE.

I believe that confession of Christ Jesus as King is just that. When you put someone or something as King, you are putting it ahead of you totally. When I confessed Jesus Christ as King, I did it because I knew I couldn't get my life together without Him. I knew I couldn't do ANYTHING without Him. Before I made that confession, I was headed for hell.

No, we have to submit...that is not a work, persay....is it?

No.

We submit via our own freewill, He did not save us and remove it, nor did He say we did not have before salvation.

How do you say we choose freely, and also say that we must be sure our calling and election is sure. If He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, its not really a choice, is it?

Faith is about submitting to what you do not yet KNOW OR UNDERSTAND...IT IS TAKING THE INITIAL STEP, WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS TRUE. We must define the word by how God does...hope in things UNSEEN..so, we are saved initially, without assurance...period, and, then we grow to that assurance, and this is what the bible teaches....

I can see where one would take awhile to understand that they are secure in the Body. My wife "prayed the prayer" a number of times. That still has no affect on eternity.

No, you grow in grace and in knowledge AFTER you are in Him, and with the power of the Holy Spirit, you have the choice to submit to Him...did you read my post?

I did. Sometimes there is a disconnect between what you feel is important for me to respond to, and what I think is important. Perhaps if you try to be a little less lengthy, I can respond more to your liking.

It is conditional ONLY after you are saved..for He gives you the POWER, through the Holy Spirit to submit to His will.

So do we get the Holy Spirit when we confess Christ Jesus as King, or later??

THEN YOU CAN BE LED BACK TO UNBELIEF, OF YOUR OWN FREEWILL.

So, then- I can choose of my own free will to break the seal of the Holy Spirit AND uncrucify myself?? If I ever chose that, I'd wonder(looking from the outside in) if I had truly believed in the first place...

He saved you to be a LIGHT; THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR SALVATION,

:up:

AND YOU HAVE THE FREEWILL TO PUT THAT LIGHT UNDER A BASKET AND SNUFF IT OUT.

:down: I have the free will to reject my election? :shocked: Thats wild, man. Like freaky.

You are not a robot, you have freewill, and you get to CHOOSE to do HIS will, or go backwards...remember Lot's wife....remember the dog that returned to his own vomit....God has never forced His will on anyone, and it is a false gospel to say or claim He does.

So are you an open theist or not?

He wants YOU to choose to love Him back, and to CHOOSE to accept and submit to His will....this is the other part of why you WERE freely saved.

AMEN!!

You could not do that, without the HOLY spirit; and now that you have it, it is UNBELIEF TO DENY THE POWER OF GOD, THAT HE GAVE YOU FREELY.

Which, if I remember correctly, is an unpardonable sin by your thoughts??

Yes, under the law of moses; as the carnal man...God gives YOU the HOLY SPIRIT to give YOU the POWER to choose to do good; stop denying the facts:

Deny? Where?? How is saying that there is no one who does good (Psalm 14:3, Romans 3:10) a denial of fact?

You deny the power of God, via the Holy Spirit if you do not agree with Paul, who taught the not only how we are saved by a free gift, but the responsibility that would come alongside IT, due to the fact that God gave you the power to do good.

I do agree with Paul. The responsibility has no consequences if we neglect it. Thats why salvation is a gift. NOTHING we can do can break the seal, or uncrucify us. There is a reason that such strong phrases were used. You deny the grace of God by putting conditions on that which is unconditional.

If I were you, I would ask yourself why you believe a lie?

I believe the Holy Bible. All of it is for me, not all of it is to me. If you ever understand that, maybe you'll realize that free means free.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

John 10:29

29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Full of fraud and deceit.



Genesis 3

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Full of fraud and deceit. You are an enemy of Christ. I know you hate my God. You devil worshipping witch from hell. That is what you are. And that is why I call you that name. You hate grace, and the peace it gives people. You are wolf in sheeps clothing.

John 10:29 is speaking of sheep, not of lambs.

As you are a goat, you do not understand this.

Your "grace" is the sin of presumption.

You presume God has saved you by your beliefs.

You hate good works because you can not produce any worthy of a saved person.

What do you say these verses mean?

1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear

Consider your position if you are calling one of the children of the Almighty to be a "devil worshipping witch from hell."

Does this verse below make it clear that without the aforementioned items in one's life, that salvation would be unsure for them, and completely impossible without having anything of them.

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


LA

 

[graceandpeace]

Howdy Mr Deets:

I will make it short and sweet like you asked:

I did. Sometimes there is a disconnect between what you feel is important for me to respond to, and what I think is important. Perhaps if you try to be a little less lengthy, I can respond more to your liking.

You assume the sealing is upon being born again. The bible, nor Jesus nor Paul, nor Peter, nor John, nor James, or anyone else EVER taught that.

..only men that confuse being born again, with being crucified with Christ..that a man cannot accomplish WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLING.

So, instead of redoing your whole post, let me just leave you with this:

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

It is the MEAT that causes you to be sealed..not the milk. The milk will get you born again...receive the Holy Spirit, you are now saved and a babe...then, through the growing in grace and in knowledge, of the MEAT, you come to a complete man/mature and this is when you are sealed..and, sealed unto the day of redemption of the body; for you have made your calling and election sure; and can never fall.

Read LA's verses.

I don't have time to redo them all over again.

It is not about doing works to be saved it is about submission.

 

[Tambora]

Initial salvation? Oh you're full of fraud and deceit. How long will keep perverting the straight ways of the Lord?

I'm beginning to think as long as she has breath.

 

[Tambora]

I was....me....myself.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

At the very moment of one's salvation, a believer died to the evil of the flesh, which is the sin nature and his life is now hidden with Christ in God.

The old man was crucified with Him.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ahhh, another voice of biblical reason on TOL.

 

[Tambora]

This ^ and Gal 2:20

AMEN! Thank God TOL has some biblical based teachers!

 

[Tambora]

You have to pass the GP probational period (which is general, obscure, subjective) before you can claim these good things.

:rotfl:

 

[Tambora]

You are wolf in sheeps clothing.

She really doesn't bother putting on the sheep clothing.

 

[Tambora]

"Let's teach the truth..today..."-Daffy Duck-ette


“Put your teachers away, and embrace the bible.”-GP


"I am here to speak the truth; not to teach it."-GP

GP: "The other day at womans bible study/baptist, the teacher told me..."


"Once you are confirmed; you are to be a teacher...yourself. "-GP

"we do NOT need men to teach us the bible........those in Christ do not need any man to teach them"-GP


”God never ordained men to teach men.”-GP



The hits keep coming....

Classics!

 

[Tambora]

:dizzy: So, hypothetically, I can learn to live without ANY "sin"... or NEVER stumble? I believe this as well, but not because of anything I do or learn. Your focus is always on you. You call MAD fleshy, but continually talk about what "we" must DO, and how we have to mature, or gain knowledge... :blabla:. You, more than ANYONE on this site, IMHO focus on what must "be done"- yet you cannot see it.

BINGO!

 

[Son of Jack]

G&P,

It is clear that you teach a works-based version of salvation. It seems to me that you are suggesting that when Jesus said, "It is finished," He meant that "It was just beginning," with a phrase like initial salvation. To borrow from a dear friend, Jesus bought me. He didn't rent me.

 

[Tambora]

G&P,

It is clear that you teach a works-based version of salvation. It seems to me that you are suggesting that when Jesus said, "It is finished," He meant that "It was just beginning," with a phrase like initial salvation.

God bless you, SOJ.

To borrow from a dear friend, Jesus bought me. He didn't rent me.

Love it! I gotta remember that one.

 

[john w]

Howdy Mr Deets:

I will make it short and sweet like you asked:



You assume the sealing is upon being born again. The bible, nor Jesus nor Paul, nor Peter, nor John, nor James, or anyone else EVER taught that.

..only men that confuse being born again, with being crucified with Christ..that a man cannot accomplish WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLING.

So, instead of redoing your whole post, let me just leave you with this:

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

It is the MEAT that causes you to be sealed..not the milk. The milk will get you born again...receive the Holy Spirit, you are now saved and a babe...then, through the growing in grace and in knowledge, of the MEAT, you come to a complete man/mature and this is when you are sealed..and, sealed unto the day of redemption of the body; for you have made your calling and election sure; and can never fall.

Read LA's verses.

I don't have time to redo them all over again.

It is not about doing works to be saved it is about submission.

"You assume the sealing is upon being born again. The bible, nor Jesus nor Paul, nor Peter, nor John, nor James, or anyone else EVER taught that...only men that confuse being born again, with being crucified with Christ"-GP

Made up, like this:

"nowhere does the bible say you are sealed upon salvation...you add that thought to the verse in question...the maturation is the 'sealing'...(making your calling and election sure)...once saved always saved is a lie. once sealed/matured always sealed is not.This is the truth....I do NOT believe in osas...OSAS is true to a point...you are either born again, or you are not...there is no in between...."-GP


This perverter makes things up on the fly. This is her "ministry."

"once sealed/matured always sealed "

"OSAS is true to a point..." vs. "you are either born again, or you are not...there is no in between."





Clown-ette. Perverter.

 

[john w]

Classics!

Yes, Bora of Tam, she is either 9 years old, surfing the net when her parents are out, delusional, as Nick pointed out, or her bong water needs changing-no other options(besides being lost). Any "reasonably prudent person"("Business Law A")must come to this conclusion.