What ever happened to...

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Jesus was the way but it was not yet revealed.
Here is the scripture that proves what I said:

1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ

Now you have learned something. Aren’t you glad?


Believing and obeying God has ALWAYS been the way, since the beginning.
Would you like me to prove that to you too?


People were called children of God before Jesus came. God was with them.
Are you really going to deny and blasphemy against such a known thing?

Deuteronomy 14:1
"You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave your forehead for the sake of the dead.

Romans 9:4
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the Law, the temple worship, and the promises.


Of course a person has to believe and obey.



You are badly mistaken to think the most righteous person and most righteous acts are as that.

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.


Not the holy people of God. How would you EVER get that? Do you really think that Abraham was a thief and a robber?


You have some issues you need to work out.

Isaiah 55:9
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

You think you can work your way to heaven, that is not the Gospel. Your feeling are your religion. All went to Hell without Jesus. Your works are period stains to my God. Yuk:

5708. ed ►
Strong's Concordance
ed: filthy
Original Word: עִדִּים
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ed
Phonetic Spelling: (ayd)
Short Definition: filthy
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
see edah.
Brown-Driver-Briggs
[עִדָּה] noun feminine menstruation, so Vrss (properly time, period)

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

What about moses and Elias? They appeared with Jesus on the mountain in glory. Don't you think that they came from heaven?

No, they came from Abraham's side in Hell.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Hitler didn't love God with all his heart and mind and his neighbour as himself, if he did he wouldn't have murdered all those people.

Loving our family and loving God and doing his works are different. We will do things for our family because we love them in the flesh, but with God's love, we will do things that we would never do in the flesh and we will care for others much more than we would if we put our flesh first. And God's love in the hearts of those born of him, reaches and cares for whomsoever we meet and see in need regardless of who they are, as God cares for everyone and he is no respecter of persons.

That's great but

Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Only with Jesus can we be saved.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Do you realise that Christ was in the prophets?

The Spirit of Christ spoke through them but they did not go to Heaven.

1 Peter 1
10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You know what amazes me, people here teach that people have to believe that Jesus died on the cross to save us and that we won't enter heaven unless we believe this, (yet it doesn't say this in the Bible). And yet Jesus teaches that those who live by the will of God are those who enter into the kingdom of heaven, yet many skip past this and ignore it when I show them the verse. And then many say there are no works, but if we live by the will of God then there are works, and we have to be doers of the word and not just hearers only. Jesus showed us the way to live to please God, he showed us a new and living way to follow.

If we love God and have true faith, then we will obey him and Christ, and with obedience comes works, not the works of the flesh which brings boasting and pride, but the works of God where we become humble and last in the world and put God first in our lives and live to please him as we are taught by Christ Jesus, and then as we are taught daily in our hearts by the Spirit, who teaches and guides us showing us the truth and helping us to turn from sin and overcome.

You can TRY all you like to live the way you THINK God wants you to live but it ain't gonna get you into Heaven. Only belief in Jesus' finished work will get you in. Your works will then get you your rewards in Heaven but only the works of the Spirit, not the flesh.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You can't condemn everyone before Jesus came, only God can judge them, blimey Watchman you're condemning some of the strongest men of God that there has ever been. Christ was in and with them. Christ was the spiritual rock that they drank from.

It's not ME condemning them, Jesus himself called them a bunch of thieves and robbers:

John 10:8
All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

 

[marhig]

No, they came from Abraham's side in Hell.

In hell? What? These men walked with God, there is no way they went to hell!

 

[marhig]

That's great but

Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Only with Jesus can we be saved.

Christ was in them and they lived by the will of God, they'll be in heaven.

 

[marhig]

The Spirit of Christ spoke through them but they did not go to Heaven.

1 Peter 1
10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Can I ask you something, where do you believe that they are now?

 

[marhig]

You can TRY all you like to live the way you THINK God wants you to live but it ain't gonna get you into Heaven. Only belief in Jesus' finished work will get you in. Your works will then get you your rewards in Heaven but only the works of the Spirit, not the flesh.

It's nothing to do with my works, its God working in my heart and then me living it out and obeying him. And it's all done though Christ Jesus by the grace of God through faith. Jesus didn't bring us a new and living way, if we don't have to follow the way. And he wasn't our example to follow for nothing either!

Here's Paul speaking regarding works

Romans 2

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that WORKETH good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

In hell? What? These men walked with God, there is no way they went to hell!

Jesus never lied or mislead anyone:

Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Jesus also went to this place where Abraham was:

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the Gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Jesus Himself alluded to the fact that he was going to descend to Hell after his death:

John 10:16
“I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock, and one shepherd.”

And . . .

Luke 23:43
Jesus answered [to the criminal on the cross next to] him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Paradise is the name of three different places in the Bible: Eden, a garden in Heaven, and a place where the righteous went after death. After Jesus preached in Hell Jesus resurrected and confirmed that He had as yet to ascend to Heaven, as He told Mary:

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father, and your Father, to my God, and your God.”

Because Jesus was ceremonially clean, He could not let anyone touch Him until He had presented Himself before God. After He had done this Jesus was seen again by the women who were hurrying back from the tomb, where He then allowed them to touch Him:

Matthew 28:8-9
8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet, and worshipped him.

 

[marhig]

It's not ME condemning them, Jesus himself called them a bunch of thieves and robbers:

John 10:8
All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

Jesus is talking about false teachers, like the scribes and the pharasees who we're against him. Not those who we're faithful servants of God, and especially not the prophets! It says in the Bible that they walked with God, so how can you say that they went to hell?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Christ was in them and they lived by the will of God, they'll be in heaven.

Nope. You can't work you way to Heaven.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Can I ask you something, where do you believe that they are now?

That would be telling. I'm having too much fun at the moment.

 

[marhig]

Jesus never lied or mislead anyone:

Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Jesus also went to this place where Abraham was:

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the Gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Jesus Himself alluded to the fact that he was going to descend to Hell after his death:

John 10:16
“I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock, and one shepherd.”

And . . .

Luke 23:43
Jesus answered [to the criminal on the cross next to] him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Paradise is the name of three different places in the Bible: Eden, a garden in Heaven, and a place where the righteous went after death. After Jesus preached in Hell Jesus resurrected and confirmed that He had as yet to ascend to Heaven, as He told Mary:

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father, and your Father, to my God, and your God.”

Because Jesus was ceremonially clean, He could not let anyone touch Him until He had presented Himself before God. After He had done this Jesus was seen again by the women who were hurrying back from the tomb, where He then allowed them to touch Him:

Matthew 28:8-9
8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet, and worshipped him.

Again you're reading those naturally not in the Spirit, do you honestly believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Moses, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel etc. Went to hell when they died?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

It's nothing to do with my works, its God working in my heart and then me living it out and obeying him. And it's all done though Christ Jesus by the grace of God through faith. Jesus didn't bring us a new and living way, if we don't have to follow the way. And he wasn't our example to follow for nothing either!

Here's Paul speaking regarding works

Romans 2

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that WORKETH good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.

Sure you're trusting Jesus but the OT people had no one to take them to heaven as they had all sinned. Including the likes of Abraham and Moses whose sins we can read about in the Bible.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Jesus is talking about false teachers, like the scribes and the pharasees who we're against him. Not those who we're faithful servants of God, and especially not the prophets! It says in the Bible that they walked with God, so how can you say that they went to hell?

No, read it from the original Greek: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/10-8.htm
Jesus meant ALL whoever came before Him.

 

[marhig]

That would be telling. I'm having too much fun at the moment.

Mmmmm. Anyway, really where do you believe that they are now?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Again you're reading those naturally not in the Spirit, do you honestly believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Moses, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel etc. Went to hell when they died?

I'm reading them correctly and as said you can read about the sins commited by most of those you list.

I notice Adam isn't there nor Elijah and John the Baptist and they were greater still but they also went to Hell. John the Baptist was called the greatest human to live by Jesus but even his faith failed him when in prison.

Although they did go to the Paradise side of Hell, so..

 

[marhig]

I'm reading them correctly and as said you can read about the sins commited by most of those you list.

I notice Adam isn't there nor Elijah and John the Baptist and they were greater still but they also went to Hell. John the Baptist was called the greatest human to live by Jesus but even his faith failed him when in prison.

Although they did go to the Paradise side of Hell, so..

No they didn't go to hell, where do you think they are now?