ECT What did this woman believe?

[Interplanner]

LA is on the right track.

If you want to know what someone believes, the best way is to watch what they do, not necessarily listen to their words.

Actions speak louder than words. Although speaking words are an action.

Why do people do what they do?

Because of what they believe.

If you believe that Jesus is lord and the messiah, the anointed one, Acts 10:38, and that his works forgives sins, you would act accordingly.

In the case of this woman, she did what the culture she lived in required, she showed her humility and expectation toward the lord Jesus Christ by her actions. She sought forgiveness from the person she believed could forgive as demonstrated by her actions

More to the point, though, LA: she wasn't seeking forgiveness. She already had it. Jesus upset Pharisees by granting it, from his first double-proof miracle onward: Mk 2.

 

[oatmeal]

No serious answers from non-MASs. Very telling.

I asked what the woman believed, not what she did. The two of you who have responded are making her salvation by her works. Are you good with that? What am I saying, of course you are.

Why in this age of grace is salvation by grace, not of works.

Was salvation always by grace? if so, then Jesus Christ died unnecessarily.

Salvation before grace was by believing in God by doing the works of the law

Jesus Christ's works, that is, his fulfilling of the law did the works for us.

At the time of this event with the woman, our sin had not yet been paid for, thus salvation was not solely by grace at that time.

(grace is always involved even from the beginning, but in this age of grace, it is the core of the issue, it is the core of our believing lifestyle, this is not " the age of the law with some grace sprinkled on top", but the age of grace)

Therefore, some works were necessary at the time of this record.

Once Jesus died and was raised and taken up and gave the gift of the Holy Spirit, then salvation was by grace alone

 

[musterion]

LA is on the right track.

If you want to know what someone believes, the best way is to watch what they do, not necessarily listen to their words.

Actions speak louder than words.

By that standard, if we stuff you and LA in a time machine and send you back to the Corinthians that Paul wrote to, a whole lot of people in that church would be condemned by you as unquestionably lost.

 

[turbosixx]

Riffing from Heir's superb "Can't be the same" thread...

Facts in evidence:

1. Christ said the woman's sins were forgiven.

2. Christ said her sins were forgiven on the basis of her faith -- something she's believed.

3. Christ said that because of whatever it was she believed, she was now free to go in peace.

Question: what did this woman believe that saved her and put her at peace with her sins forgiven?

Yes, she had faith but her sins were forgiven by Jesus in person because he had that authority.

Matt. 9:6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"-then He said to the paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home."

Those before the cross are not saved the same as those after. We have something better.

Heb. 11:39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

 

[oatmeal]

More to the point, though, LA: she wasn't seeking forgiveness. She already had it. Jesus upset Pharisees by granting it, from his first double-proof miracle onward: Mk 2.

If she already had it, why did she do what she was doing?

Are you saying it was all for show? Like a fashion show at "Easter"?

Why would Jesus have to grant forgiveness if she already had it?

 

[oatmeal]

By that standard, if we stuff you and LA in a time machine and send you back to the Corinthians that Paul wrote to, a whole lot of people in that church would be condemned by you as unquestionably lost.

that is an easy comment to type, but can you show from scripture that you are right?

For that matter, Corinthians was written after, AFTER Jesus Christ died for our sins, it is not about events that occurred before Jesus Christ died for our sins.

If the same forgiveness was available both before and after Jesus Christ died for us, then he died in vain.

Galatians 2:21 states that clearly enough.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Our salvation by grace was still a work in progress in the gospels.

 

[Interplanner]

If she already had it, why did she do what she was doing?

Are you saying it was all for show? Like a fashion show at "Easter"?

Why would Jesus have to grant forgiveness if she already had it?

She HONORED him. That's what the forgiven heart does. If you don't manifest some honor of Christ who forgave you, there has been a serious misunderstanding.

 

[Interplanner]

that is an easy comment to type, but can you show from scripture that you are right?

For that matter, Corinthians was written after, AFTER Jesus Christ died for our sins, it is not about events that occurred before Jesus Christ died for our sins.

If the same forgiveness was available both before and after Jesus Christ died for us, then he died in vain.

Galatians 2:21 states that clearly enough.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Our salvation by grace was still a work in progress in the gospels.

Not at all re the work in progress. The 'day of the Lord's favor' had come, as we know from the first reading of scripture by Jesus in Lk 4. And that was retroactive; at least that is the point of Luke collecting so many details about things prior to that. Like 2:30. Or 1:77.

 

[Interplanner]

This scene is also showing how debt, not a changed life, is the concern of forgiveness. That is an advanced concept for many Christians. Freedom from the debt of sin will change a person's life, but the two are not the same thing. 'The 'gospel' of the changed life has replaced the Gospel which changes lives' said Australian teacher of the historic Gospel, G. Paxton.

You would not have this concept unless the forgiveness of sins in Christ was the undercurrent very early in the ministry of Jesus.

 

[Bradley D]

These were the woman's works glorifying the Lord by recognizing Him as the Messiah. All Christian work should reflect the same.

"And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil" (Luke 7:37-38).

 

[oatmeal]

She HONORED him. That's what the forgiven heart does. If you don't manifest some honor of Christ who forgave you, there has been a serious misunderstanding.

Of course she was honoring him.

However, where does it say in that passage that she was honoring him but not seeking forgiveness?

Jesus Christ says her sins are forgiven because she loved much.

It does not say, your sins are forgiven so that is why you are honoring me.

He does not say, "wow, she did a great job of honoring me, so I'll just say that her sins are forgiven to get her to leave me alone"

She loved much therefore much was forgiven.

Insight begins with reading what is written, not reading into it.

 

[oatmeal]

Not at all re the work in progress. The 'day of the Lord's favor' had come, as we know from the first reading of scripture by Jesus in Lk 4. And that was retroactive; at least that is the point of Luke collecting so many details about things prior to that. Like 2:30. Or 1:77.

So then you conclude Jesus died in vain!???

You reject Galatians 2:21?

Jesus had not died when this record of this woman took place.

 

[Interplanner]

So then you conclude Jesus died in vain!???

You reject Galatians 2:21?

Jesus had not died when this record of this woman took place.

But it was in mind. The Lamb of God had come. What do 1st century Judaism's worshippers do with lambs?