Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
What Are "Works of the Law?" - Jimmy Akin
The Law is not what many protestants think it is.
The Law is not what many protestants think it is.
What Are "Works of the Law?" - Jimmy Akin
- Thread starter Trump Gurl
- Start date
The Law was the rules given to Moses by GOD. It was GOD's vain hope that the Israelites woudl realise how lucky they were but sadly just like you catholic pagans they preferred to worship idols and murder babies.
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
Let's try that again, sans the hate:
What Are "Works of the Law?" - Jimmy Akin
The Law is not what many protestants think it is.
What Are "Works of the Law?" - Jimmy Akin
The Law is not what many protestants think it is.
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
Right Divider
Body part
Those that fail to rightly divide will be forever confused.
Right Divider
Body part
People are not "rightly divided". We are supposed to rightly divide the word of truth.
The works of law or better translated labors of law are not what justify i.e causes a man to be good, but rather faith/trust in God.
OZOS
Well-known member
Jesus was born under the Law and He taught the Law to those under the Law, in order to redeem them from the Law, by fulfilling the Law and subsequently abolishing the Law on the cross.
2 Cor 3:7-15
"But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is ABOLISHED:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."
The apostle Paul says.
1. The ministry of death and condemnation is written & engraved in stones. Those are the 10 commandments.
2. They had glory, but the glory of the Spirit surpasses the 10 commandments.
3. Moses had to put a veil over his face so the Israel would not see the glory of the 10 commandments fading away.
4. If Moses had not had the veil, Israel would have seen that the 10 commandments were to be abolished.
The Law (10 commandments) was abolished. Paul just said so. And he says it again.
Eph 2:14-16
"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, HAVING SLAIN THE ENMITY thereby"
The apostle Paul says
1. Jesus broke down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile.
2. The dividing wall (enmity) is the "Law of commandments"
3. Jesus abolished, in His flesh, the enmity (Law of commandments).
4. There is now no dividing wall between Jew & Gentile
5. Both Jew & Gentile are "one new man" in Christ, because He put to death the enmity (Law of commandments).
2 Cor 3:7-15
"But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is ABOLISHED:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."
The apostle Paul says.
1. The ministry of death and condemnation is written & engraved in stones. Those are the 10 commandments.
2. They had glory, but the glory of the Spirit surpasses the 10 commandments.
3. Moses had to put a veil over his face so the Israel would not see the glory of the 10 commandments fading away.
4. If Moses had not had the veil, Israel would have seen that the 10 commandments were to be abolished.
The Law (10 commandments) was abolished. Paul just said so. And he says it again.
Eph 2:14-16
"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, HAVING SLAIN THE ENMITY thereby"
The apostle Paul says
1. Jesus broke down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile.
2. The dividing wall (enmity) is the "Law of commandments"
3. Jesus abolished, in His flesh, the enmity (Law of commandments).
4. There is now no dividing wall between Jew & Gentile
5. Both Jew & Gentile are "one new man" in Christ, because He put to death the enmity (Law of commandments).
OZOS
Well-known member
Dear Jimmy, it is not our good works, but we are Christ's good work.
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" James 2:22
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth". Hebrews 11:13
Those who had faith in God, in the Old Testament, were looking forward to the promise. The works that they did were the result of the faith they had in the One whom God was sending, namely Christ. Noah built the ark having faith in the coming promise. Abraham knew that even if he killed his son, that God was able to raise him from the dead in order that the promise would be fulfilled. Even though many in the OT did not receive the promise, by faith they looked forward to it. Today, we believe in the promise fulfilled.
Jesus was asked by the multitudes… "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29). In other words, it is His work that we believe in His Son. This is His way (believing), by which we are saved.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of (our) works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10
Today, our faith is in the finished work of Jesus Christ. His work is finished.
Through Christ, God has made it possible for us to be saved by grace through faith, apart from our works. We are His workmanship. We are His good works, which God before ordained (prepared beforehand). We now walk, by faith, in His finished/completed works, that were fulfilled in Christ. We inherit the promise (life), having believed the Gospel. This is God's way. It is the only way.
Therefore, we have no reason to examine anyone, according to their works. It is our faith, not our works that is the evidence that we are believers. We are witnesses of what Jesus has DONE, and what we say we believe, concerning Him, is our testimony.
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" James 2:22
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth". Hebrews 11:13
Those who had faith in God, in the Old Testament, were looking forward to the promise. The works that they did were the result of the faith they had in the One whom God was sending, namely Christ. Noah built the ark having faith in the coming promise. Abraham knew that even if he killed his son, that God was able to raise him from the dead in order that the promise would be fulfilled. Even though many in the OT did not receive the promise, by faith they looked forward to it. Today, we believe in the promise fulfilled.
Jesus was asked by the multitudes… "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29). In other words, it is His work that we believe in His Son. This is His way (believing), by which we are saved.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of (our) works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10
Today, our faith is in the finished work of Jesus Christ. His work is finished.
Through Christ, God has made it possible for us to be saved by grace through faith, apart from our works. We are His workmanship. We are His good works, which God before ordained (prepared beforehand). We now walk, by faith, in His finished/completed works, that were fulfilled in Christ. We inherit the promise (life), having believed the Gospel. This is God's way. It is the only way.
Therefore, we have no reason to examine anyone, according to their works. It is our faith, not our works that is the evidence that we are believers. We are witnesses of what Jesus has DONE, and what we say we believe, concerning Him, is our testimony.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Akin puts a wrong meaning on the word "law" in the following passage:
"For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20; RSV Catholic Edition).
Here the words "no human being" must include both Gentiles and Jews. So the words "the law," which refer to the Law of Moses, cannot be a correct translation since the Gentiles were never given the Law of Moses:
"When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them" (Ro.2:14-15; RSV Catholic Edition).
Since the Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses then the following is the correct translation of Romans 3:20:
"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20; Young's Literal Translation).
We read, "through law is a knowledge of sin." In regard to the Gentiles the law which is a knowledge of sin is the moral law. That is the only law to which the conscience bears witness.
In regard to the Jews it is the Ten Commandments which is a knowledge of sin, as witnessed by the following words of Paul found later in the same epistle:
"What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.'" (Ro.7:7; RSV Catholic Edition).
The law which says, "You shall not covet," is one of the Ten Commandments (Ex.20:17).
So at Romans 3:20 Paul is saying that by the moral law shall no flesh be declared righteous in the sight of God, and that moral law must include the Ten Commandments. Despite this Rome teaches that "all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."
Akin denies the "gospel of grace" and he obviously doesn'tbelieve it and he remains unsaved.
"For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20; RSV Catholic Edition).
Here the words "no human being" must include both Gentiles and Jews. So the words "the law," which refer to the Law of Moses, cannot be a correct translation since the Gentiles were never given the Law of Moses:
"When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them" (Ro.2:14-15; RSV Catholic Edition).
Since the Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses then the following is the correct translation of Romans 3:20:
"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20; Young's Literal Translation).
We read, "through law is a knowledge of sin." In regard to the Gentiles the law which is a knowledge of sin is the moral law. That is the only law to which the conscience bears witness.
In regard to the Jews it is the Ten Commandments which is a knowledge of sin, as witnessed by the following words of Paul found later in the same epistle:
"What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.'" (Ro.7:7; RSV Catholic Edition).
The law which says, "You shall not covet," is one of the Ten Commandments (Ex.20:17).
So at Romans 3:20 Paul is saying that by the moral law shall no flesh be declared righteous in the sight of God, and that moral law must include the Ten Commandments. Despite this Rome teaches that "all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."
Akin denies the "gospel of grace" and he obviously doesn'tbelieve it and he remains unsaved.
The LXX doesn't exist, right?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Clearly law has been given amongst the gentiles. The law is actually a law, and nomos should be translated command. But you are correct that out of the deeds/labors of the law/command cannot justify i.e. make a person righteous. Simply, Law enforcement doesn't justify anybody.
Absolutely wrong. Works of the Law is law enforcement; and faith in Jesus and the law a synonymous. I hate bursting this bubble.
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them" (Ro.2:14-15; RSV Catholic Edition).
THE Law, the Mosaic Covenant, was never given to the Gentiles. what do you think is the meaning of the words "the law"at Romans 2:12?
Not true. But no one is perfect, so that isn't the problem. Trust or faith in God justifies, not actions of law enforcement.
OZOS
Well-known member
Are you drunk?