We, Israel, are to keep and teach the commandments. What about you?
- Thread starter Jacob
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turbosixx
New member
I follow Jesus commandments and he didn't teach the old law.
The old law was a shadow of what we have in Christ.
What is the old law and what commandments do you follow? Why do you say that the old law was a shadow of what we have in Christ?
turbosixx
New member
I understand the old law to be the Mosaical law. It was never meant to be permanent.
I follow the law of Christ as found in the new testament. For example,
1 Thes. 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
Gal. 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Heb. 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.
Heb. 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Do you call this the law of Christ? Why do you say that the old law is the Mosaical law? Why do you say that it was never meant to be permanent?
I do not know why you are referring to the old law or that the law is old. Can you answer why you believe that? I am interested as well about this in if you have a time you believe the law became old. You do not need to refer to an, or 'the', old law when talking about the Bible, Scripture, the Torah, or the TaNaK.
TestedandTried
New member
Hello Jacob,
All people are to observe the same scale...we all fall under the requirements of the Gospel.
I do not know what you mean by this. What do you mean by this? What is "the same scale"? And, what are the requirements of the Gospel according to you or as you speak of them?
TestedandTried
New member
Proverbs 20:23:
The Lord detests differing weights,
and dishonest scales do not please him.
This is a Proverb; it requires understanding...but not too much...see how God uses scales in Daniel below...
Daniel 5:27:
27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
Our Lord is just and will judge the world in righteousness. We all are called by the Gospel and it is through faith in the Gospel that we are credited with righteousness.
The Gospel is the Good News of the Messiah and all the teachings found in the N.T. reinforced with the O.T.
There is no one righteous before God; we all have a sinful nature and so it is impossible for us to fulfill the Law. God gives us a new spirit when we come to faith and the Spirit guides in the paths of righteousness to love God and our fellowman and this is the fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:10 and Galations 5:23). Similarly it is written that the Spirit brings life; the Letter (Law) kills.--
--II Corinthians 3:6
Why do you suppose God would set you as a Jew apart to try to live up to what He found fault with...the Law?? No, we are all measured by the same scales. Those living in O.T. were measure the same way...faith in the coming Messiah. We have the record of Messiah having come and turn to the Good News He brought and are measured by that scale.
The Lord detests differing weights,
and dishonest scales do not please him.
This is a Proverb; it requires understanding...but not too much...see how God uses scales in Daniel below...
Daniel 5:27:
27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
Our Lord is just and will judge the world in righteousness. We all are called by the Gospel and it is through faith in the Gospel that we are credited with righteousness.
The Gospel is the Good News of the Messiah and all the teachings found in the N.T. reinforced with the O.T.
There is no one righteous before God; we all have a sinful nature and so it is impossible for us to fulfill the Law. God gives us a new spirit when we come to faith and the Spirit guides in the paths of righteousness to love God and our fellowman and this is the fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:10 and Galations 5:23). Similarly it is written that the Spirit brings life; the Letter (Law) kills.--
--II Corinthians 3:6
Why do you suppose God would set you as a Jew apart to try to live up to what He found fault with...the Law?? No, we are all measured by the same scales. Those living in O.T. were measure the same way...faith in the coming Messiah. We have the record of Messiah having come and turn to the Good News He brought and are measured by that scale.
TestedandTried
New member
Proverbs 20:23:
The Lord detests differing weights,
and dishonest scales do not please him.
This is a Proverb; it requires understanding...but not too much...see how God uses scales in Daniel below...
Daniel 5:27:
27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
Our Lord is just and will judge the world in righteousness. We all are called by the Gospel and it is through faith in the Gospel that we are credited with righteousness.
The Gospel is the Good News of the Messiah and all the teachings found in the N.T. reinforced with the O.T.
There is no one righteous before God; we all have a sinful nature and so it is impossible for us to fulfill the Law. God gives us a new spirit when we come to faith and the Spirit guides in the paths of righteousness to love God and our fellowman and this is the fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:10 and Galations 5:23). Similarly it is written that the Spirit brings life; the Letter (Law) kills.--
--II Corinthians 3:6
Why do you suppose God would set you as a Jew apart to try to live up to what He found fault with...the Law?? No, we are all measured by the same scales. Those living in O.T. were measure the same way...faith in the coming Messiah. We have the record of Messiah having come and turn to the Good News He brought and are measured by that scale.
The Lord detests differing weights,
and dishonest scales do not please him.
This is a Proverb; it requires understanding...but not too much...see how God uses scales in Daniel below...
Daniel 5:27:
27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
Our Lord is just and will judge the world in righteousness. We all are called by the Gospel and it is through faith in the Gospel that we are credited with righteousness.
The Gospel is the Good News of the Messiah and all the teachings found in the N.T. reinforced with the O.T.
There is no one righteous before God; we all have a sinful nature and so it is impossible for us to fulfill the Law. God gives us a new spirit when we come to faith and the Spirit guides in the paths of righteousness to love God and our fellowman and this is the fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:10 and Galations 5:23). Similarly it is written that the Spirit brings life; the Letter (Law) kills.--
--II Corinthians 3:6
Why do you suppose God would set you as a Jew apart to try to live up to what He found fault with...the Law?? No, we are all measured by the same scales. Those living in O.T. were measure the same way...faith in the coming Messiah. We have the record of Messiah having come and turn to the Good News He brought and are measured by that scale.
TestedandTried
New member
Hebrews 8:7-13:
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[a]:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12
For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Where there is a covenant or say a contract that is broken by one party the covenant is severed...there are remedies, but it is severed. God in this instance made a new covenant; He made a better covenant with the people, one in which they could stand under and live...eternal life ALWAYS required the Messiah, Jesus. Genesis 3:15 promised His coming right after mankind (Adam and Eve) fell and inherited the sinful nature.
What was wrong was that the people broke the covenant.
Was it that God made a covenant with the people?
There is a new covenant for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.
I do not know what to do with the doctrine about the seed of the or a woman. I did a concordance search and I do not see it in the Bible.
The writer of Hebrews is quoting some from Jeremiah and giving commentary. At what point did the covenant become obsolete and when will or did it disappear? Many still await the coming of the new covenant, even those who have accepted it to be in Jesus who already came. It is my belief that the Law and the Prophets have not been abolished. That the Law has not been abolished, annulled, or done away with. I believe that Jesus' words to His disciples to keep and teach the commandments still applies to me today.
TestedandTried
New member
Jacob,
Israel is real, but also symbolic of all true believers...there are passages to point this out. The new covenant prophesied and came to pass was Christ and these are the N.T./new covenant teachings.
All those who believe are sons of Abraham...the Gentile believers have been grafted into Israel as Romans explains.
All for now; hope to get back to this soon.
I do not believe that Israel is symbolic at all. I am of the nation of Israel. This is different from being grafted in.
TestedandTried
New member
I'm sorry you don't believe it, but Scripture records it and you have stated that you accept Scripture...read Romans 11 and there are other supporting passages.
I do accept Scripture. I do not see anything about Israel being symbolic in Romans 11.
TestedandTried
New member
You see the "grafted in" which you were denying.
Look at Abraham's descendants, that is Israel. He/Abraham was the father of all that believed. (Romans 4)
My being grafted in was different than my becoming of Israel. Jacob's name was changed to Israel. It is from him that we have the nation of Israel. Joseph was in Egypt, and Jacob and his other sons moved to Egypt. In the Exodus Israel left Egypt. What is a mixed multitude? How about in the land of Israel everyone living by the same law? I am circumcised and observe the feasts, the 613 commandments of Torah, etc....
TestedandTried
New member
John 8:38-47.......see the beginnings of the new understanding of who "Israel" is.
Romans 4:16:
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
Colosians 3:11
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
Galations 6:16:
Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to[a] the Israel of God.
....remember here, Paul is an apostle to the Gentiles.
There's more, but please comment on this so far.
TestedandTried
New member
You weren't grafted in, you were born Israeli...you miss the point of the text which is that the Gentiles were grafted in, that is the believing Gentiles. Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles and his Epistles or letters were written to the Gentile churches he set up.