ECT water baptism

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whitestone

Well-known member
dodge said:
Don't stop at 19:2


Act 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

They were baptized THEN Paul LAID HIS HAND ON THEM then they received the Holy Spirit.
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Consider Nicodemus,he was a Pharisee,a leader of the people who during that dispensation was told he must be born of water and spirit which would have then been true,that is both the washings fulfilling the law and another "born of the Spirit".

Now on the other hand if you are no longer in that dispensation(one Nicodemus was in),but in another,and in it,it is not so that you are to both fulfil the Law(old test. washings) and be born of the spirit then laying aside the law is there not today one baptism,one spirit we are baptised in?

I say this because when Jesus said that to him he(Nicodemus) was still under the "law"... the question is, is it not proper to say to those who then were still under the law both the things of the law and the things coming?

If so then and we are no longer under the law how then is it proper to say to us who are now,in this dispensation we are to fulfil the law?
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Right Divider said:
I do know that. So what does Israel being DRY baptized UNTO Moses have to do with Israel's water baptism for the remissions of sins?
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In John 1:33 the prophet John said, "I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’"

I'll concede the point that it was not Paul who sent John to baptize with water, so who could it be?

Nope, it wasn't Simon Peter, so who could it be?

John said someone would baptize with water and John would know him by the dove descending and remaining on him.

It turned out to be Jesus. So Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit, but what does that mean?

It means the preposition "with" can also mean "for" in the Greek. So those baptized by Jesus' authority (his name) are baptized for the receiving of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands.

We must be born of the water in order to be born of the Spirit.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
jamie said:
In John 1:33 the prophet John said, "I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’"

I'll concede the point that it was not Paul who sent John to baptize with water, so who could it be?

Nope, it wasn't Simon Peter, so who could it be?

John said someone would baptize with water and John would know him by the dove descending and remaining on him.

It turned out to be Jesus. So Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit, but what does that mean?

It means the preposition "with" can also mean "for" in the Greek. So those baptized by Jesus' authority (his name) are baptized for the receiving of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands.

We must be born of the water in order to be born of the Spirit.
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The baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is NOT the SAME baptism as the baptism BY the Holy Spirit into ONE body. It's pretty simple to understand the difference if you let God's Word speak for itself.

THEIR baptism WITH the Holy Spirit had to do with POWER to perform demonstrations to their nation as per THEIR prophecies regarding their kingdom.

Acts 1:8 (AKJV/PCE)​
(1:8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. ​

Peter's first public speech on the lawfully required feast day for Israel (Pentecost), the first thing that is says is that "THIS IS THAT" which was spoken by the prophet Joel. Joel was a prophet for the nation of Israel.

Peter continues "Men of Israel".... yep. It was ALL a continuation of the things that God had been doing with Israel. All foretold... no new creature... etc. etc. etc.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
jamie said:
In John 1:33 the prophet John said, "I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’"

I'll concede the point that it was not Paul who sent John to baptize with water, so who could it be?

Nope, it wasn't Simon Peter, so who could it be?

John said someone would baptize with water and John would know him by the dove descending and remaining on him.

It turned out to be Jesus. So Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit, but what does that mean?

It means the preposition "with" can also mean "for" in the Greek. So those baptized by Jesus' authority (his name) are baptized for the receiving of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands.

We must be born of the water in order to be born of the Spirit.
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Hi and the CONTEXT is still under the Law !!~

There is no water BAPTIZO under Grace !!

dan p
 
dodge

dodge

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Thanks for your kind words, dodge. Are you saying that water baptism is the ONE BAPTISM?

Thanks!
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Jerry, there are NO scriptures setting aside water baptism in scripture.

Jesus was baptized, Paul and all the Apostles were baptized, and scripture records those that believed the Gospel were baptized. The ONE baptism on the Spirit does not set aside or remove water baptism.

If you follow the sequences in Acts 19:4-6 they were baptized then they received the Holy Spirit.

Good to see you are feeling better.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
whitestone said:
Consider Nicodemus,he was a Pharisee,a leader of the people who during that dispensation was told he must be born of water and spirit which would have then been true,that is both the washings fulfilling the law and another "born of the Spirit".

Now on the other hand if you are no longer in that dispensation(one Nicodemus was in),but in another,and in it,it is not so that you are to both fulfil the Law(old test. washings) and be born of the spirit then laying aside the law is there not today one baptism,one spirit we are baptised in?

I say this because when Jesus said that to him he(Nicodemus) was still under the "law"... the question is, is it not proper to say to those who then were still under the law both the things of the law and the things coming?

If so then and we are no longer under the law how then is it proper to say to us who are now,in this dispensation we are to fulfil the law?
Click to expand...

Hello Whitestone, John's baptism was under the law NOT the baptism in Christ Jesus.

Scripture says the law was by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 
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DAN P

Well-known member
dodge said:
Hello Whitestone, John's baptism was under the law NOT the baptism in Christ Jesus.

Scripture says the law was by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
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Hi and there is a difference Grace and Truth AND the Dispensation of the Grace of God as was given to the Apostle Paul and Gal 2:9 makes it perfectly clear who was to Preach to Gentiles and it was not Jesus or the 12 apostles !!

There is no Greek word for IMMERSTION !!

Whitestone has you and you are mine !!

dan p
 
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whitestone

Well-known member
whitestone said:
Remember when Barnabas was carried away in the dissimulation of Peter? Dissimulation,,,is a fairly strong word Paul used to explain what Peter did wouldn’t it seem Galatians 2:13 KJV
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this dissimulation Galatians 2:13 KJV which means he was putting on "a public display,for show" Acts 10:47-48 KJV
 
dodge

dodge

New member
DAN P said:
Hi and there is a difference Grace and Truth AND the Dispensation of the Grace of God as was given to the Apostle Paul and Gal 2:9 makes it perfectly clear who was to Preach to Gentiles and it was not Jesus or the 12 apostles !!

There is no Greek word for IMMERSTION !!

Whitestone has you and you are mine !!

dan p
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Sure there is a Greek word for baptism. Even though you believe you are a Greek scholar you fall far short.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
dodge said:
Sure there is a Greek word for baptism. Even though you believe you are a Greek scholar you fall far short.
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Hi and I never said I was a Greek scholar GRASSHOPPER !!

At the present time I study Greek tenses , and Voices and MOODS , so are you MOODY TODAY ?

Tenses explain the ACTION that is happenning in any verse !!

Real scholars spend there lives studying what the meaning of Greek words and what they mean !!

Just because they know more than me does not mean they know what DISPENSATIONALISM really means !!

The only ones that were IMMERSED were those during NOAH"S TIME and they all WROWN !!

dan p
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
dodge said:
The ONE baptism on the Spirit does not set aside or remove water baptism.
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Of course it does!

Here is then ONE BAPTISM for the present dispensation:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

According to you ideas the ONE BAPTISM must be water baptism to the exclusion of the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit.

You must believe in TWO BAPTISMS despite the clear teaching on this subject found in the Bible. Or perhaps you think that the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is not for today.

In any case, your ideas are directly contradicted by the Scriptures.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Of course it does!

Here is then ONE BAPTISM for the present dispensation:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

According to you ideas the ONE BAPTISM must be water baptism to the exclusion of the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit.

You must believe in TWO BAPTISMS despite the clear teaching on this subject found in the Bible. Or perhaps you think that the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is not for today.

In any case, your ideas are directly contradicted by the Scriptures.
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I believe exactly as Jesus taught to teach and baptize the Nations.
I believe that as Paul and EVERY person that names the name Jesus was water baptized in the NT, and you cannot provide even ONE example from the NT where one was in Jesus and was not water baptized NOT ONE.

My beliefs are in harmony with what the NT teaches we should be water baptized as was Jesus, Paul, and everyone that followed Jesus in the NT.

You IGNORE every teaching from scripture to follow Paul who he himself to follow Jesus as HE followed Jesus.

Jerry , yet you cannot provide even ONE verse from scripture where water baptism is done away with.

Paul was water baptized then he received the Holy Spirit. If you read acts 19 honestly you would acknowledge that truth where Paul was water baptized and then received the Holy Spirit.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
dodge said:
I believe exactly as Jesus taught to teach and baptize the Nations.
I believe that as Paul and EVERY person that names the name Jesus was water baptized in the NT, and you cannot provide even ONE example from the NT where one was in Jesus and was not water baptized NOT ONE.

My beliefs are in harmony with what the NT teaches we should be water baptized as was Jesus, Paul, and everyone that followed Jesus in the NT.

You IGNORE every teaching from scripture to follow Paul who he himself to follow Jesus as HE followed Jesus.

Jerry , yet you cannot provide even ONE verse from scripture where water baptism is done away with.

Paul was water baptized then he received the Holy Spirit. If you read acts 19 honestly you would acknowledge that truth where Paul was water baptized and then received the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...

I admit that it is a good idea to be water baptized but where in the New Testament does it say that you must be water baptized?
 
dodge

dodge

New member
Bright Raven said:
I admit that it is a good idea to be water baptized but where in the New Testament does it say that you must be water baptized?
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Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Every example in scripture is to be water baptized then receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19 is The same. Water baptized ( PAUL ) THEN HE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT.
 
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