You're debate style has improved and is much more thick skinned! Now if you'll just improve your theology... everything will be awesome!
ECT Water Baptism Not For Today
- Thread starter turbosixx
- Start date
You're debate style has improved and is much more thick skinned! Now if you'll just improve your theology... everything will be awesome!
God's Truth
New member
God already gave all the earthy land promises.
The one land promises now are going to be heavenly and it will not be based on blood relatives to Abraham, it will be those of Abraham's seed of faith with obedience.
God's Truth
New member
The same thing I said about Danoh, I say to you.
I'm sure glad somebody on this site knows what they're talkin' about!
God's Truth
New member
Thank you!
Oh! Did you think I was talking about you?
God's Truth
New member
No.
turbosixx
New member
This is my current understanding.
I agree, there was a transitional period for the Jews and I agree with the parable. The parable talks about the last year of cultivation, I understand that to be the gospel being proclaimed to the Jews first. If they don’t accept Jesus after hearing the gospel, they are then “cut down”. I don’t understand “cut down” as being set aside. When Paul tells us that God has not rejected his people, he doesn’t tell about a future restoration. He tells us about the remnant “at this present time” and he uses himself as an example. As we also see in other OT examples, only the remnant is saved.
After the resurrection, we do not see anywhere the apostles teaching observance of the law except for one instance and Paul is in agreement with it.
Both means there’s two of something. It can’t be two nations because the Gentiles are made up of multiple nations. Your explanation didn’t help me to understand your point because you still used “groups”. So what do you understand the two things to be?
That’s how I understand it, the church is made up of individuals from each group.
What Peter proclaimed on Pentecost wasn’t the old law, it was something new. Peter preached Jesus. Paul preached Jesus to Jews and Gentiles on his travels and in his letters. On Paul’s last journey 2-3 years before his arrest, he finds believers that have been taught Jesus by someone else, Apollos. When he finds out they hadn’t received the Holy Spirit, he baptizes them in the name of Jesus. We see this same pattern practiced by everyone who proclaims the gospel from Pentecost throughout Acts. Preach the gospel and baptize the believers in Jesus’ name. The same pattern Jesus instructed on how to make Christians.
Paul preached the same message to the Jews in Acts 13 that Peter preached in Acts 2. After that sermon he says 46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Since Paul preached the same sermon Peter did, do you believe he then began to preach a different message to the Gentiles or the same message?
I don’t see Paul introducing anything new. I would appreciate it if you could point to something new that Paul revealed that hadn’t been previously revealed.
Thanks for your comments.
I agree, there was a transitional period for the Jews and I agree with the parable. The parable talks about the last year of cultivation, I understand that to be the gospel being proclaimed to the Jews first. If they don’t accept Jesus after hearing the gospel, they are then “cut down”. I don’t understand “cut down” as being set aside. When Paul tells us that God has not rejected his people, he doesn’t tell about a future restoration. He tells us about the remnant “at this present time” and he uses himself as an example. As we also see in other OT examples, only the remnant is saved.
After the resurrection, we do not see anywhere the apostles teaching observance of the law except for one instance and Paul is in agreement with it.
Both means there’s two of something. It can’t be two nations because the Gentiles are made up of multiple nations. Your explanation didn’t help me to understand your point because you still used “groups”. So what do you understand the two things to be?
That’s how I understand it, the church is made up of individuals from each group.
What Peter proclaimed on Pentecost wasn’t the old law, it was something new. Peter preached Jesus. Paul preached Jesus to Jews and Gentiles on his travels and in his letters. On Paul’s last journey 2-3 years before his arrest, he finds believers that have been taught Jesus by someone else, Apollos. When he finds out they hadn’t received the Holy Spirit, he baptizes them in the name of Jesus. We see this same pattern practiced by everyone who proclaims the gospel from Pentecost throughout Acts. Preach the gospel and baptize the believers in Jesus’ name. The same pattern Jesus instructed on how to make Christians.
Paul preached the same message to the Jews in Acts 13 that Peter preached in Acts 2. After that sermon he says 46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Since Paul preached the same sermon Peter did, do you believe he then began to preach a different message to the Gentiles or the same message?
I don’t see Paul introducing anything new. I would appreciate it if you could point to something new that Paul revealed that hadn’t been previously revealed.
Thanks for your comments.
Right Divider
Body part
Of course Paul tells of their restoration. It couldn't be more clear.
Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
Crystal clear (p.s. he's not talking about resurrection there).
Acts 2:46-47 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, (2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
What do you think that they're doing in the Temple, playing Pinochle?
Even many years later:
Acts 21:17-21 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:17) And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. (21:18) And the [day] following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. (21:19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. (21:20) And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:(21:21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.
Not a peep from Paul or God that there is a problem with them being zealous for the law. James was a believer.
Right Divider
Body part
Go ahead be a nit picker if you like. I simply put Paul first because HE WAS WITH JAMES and NOT because he is more important than God.
You really are frequently an idiot.
dodge
New member
I was taught in school that when more than one person is listed it goes in the order of their title, importance,and or relevance to what is being written. I would believe God fits every criteria to be placed first.
I respect and fear God to much to say He peeps, and if you don't I would suggest you start !
turbosixx
New member
Addressing Israel
Peter: 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words;
Paul: 16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel,
Christ descended from David
Peter: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:
Christ died
Peter: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Paul: 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
David saw decay
Peter: 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Paul: 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
Christ did not see decay
Peter: 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Paul: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Jesus resurrected
Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up,
Paul: 30 But God raised him from the dead:
People witnessed the resurrection
Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Paul: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
Forgiveness of sins through Jesus
Peter: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul: 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Jesus is Israel’s savior
Peter: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:
turbosixx
New member
Paul says in the prior verse that he wants them to be jealous so they might save some. He's not talking about the future but his ministry.
14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
They are dead as long as they reject Jesus.
I would suggest it's speculation that they were teaching observance of the law.
I believe they were doing the same thing Paul was doing in the synagogue?
Acts 17:1 Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And according to Paul’s custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
There is not a problem with being zealous for the law as long as they don't want to be justified by it. No where do we see the apostles teaching it's observance. If you know of a passage, please show me.
turbosixx
New member
This is something I’m trying to understand from others point of view but struggling to. Maybe you can help clear it up. Here’s my current understanding.
Paul says that it’s not the children of the flesh that are regarded as descendants but the children of promise. Now one could say he is talking about descendants of Ishmael because they are children of the flesh because he says in verse 6 “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;. That eliminates the Ishmael line.
I understand the children of promise to be those of the body (church). Paul then describes those in the church as Jews.
Col. 2: 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Phil. 3:2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
Gal. 3: 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
Gal. 4: 28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Are these not the things that physically separate Jew from Gentile?
Last edited:
turbosixx
New member
If the replies and lack thereof are any indication, I can see why people today want to do away with water baptism. Most on here do not know it's purpose. Only a couple used actual verses about water baptism to explain it's purpose and even then only one verse although there are several. If we don't let the bible tell us the purpose and what it accomplishes, where else can we learn it?