WARNING! Apostasy about to happen.

[nikolai_42]

More vague contradictory diatribe.:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:

This is how it is:

1. Anti-Christ: Muslim Mahdi.
2. False Prophet: Jewish High Priest.
3. The strange god(Daniel 11:39)/The dragon(Revelation 13:1)/Abaddon(Revelation 9:11)/Satan: Posing as Isa(The Muslim name for Jesus).
4. These three above appear and the Tribulation begins in Oct 2022.
5. Jesus returns Sept 2029.
6. 1000 year reign begins.

Job done.

So...if someone happened to assassinate the Muslim Mahdi, what would happen to all the prophecies concerning the Antichrist? And since you believe the beast is an individual (contrary to the prophetic interpretation of beasts as empires given in Daniel), how does this image of the beast get established - considering Islam is dead set against iconography (and, in fact, persecuted the church in the middle ages because of its pictorial representations)?

 

[nikolai_42]

Won't happen.
The empires Daniel described and their rulers are as follows:

1. Nimrod—Babylonians
2. Pharaoh Thutmose III—Egyptians
3. Sennacherib—Assyrians
4. Nebuchadnezzar—Babylonians
5. Antiochus Epiphanes IV—Greeks
6. Nero—Romans
7. Hitler—Germans
8. The Assyrian Muslim Mahdi Anti-Christ - Abaddon/Satan, and the
Israeli/Rothschild's/New World Order

Revelation 17:11
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.



They break their own laws whenever it suits their satanic agenda. Besides it is an image of the Anti-Christ, not Mohammed.

Just assuming for the moment that the Mahdi is the Man of Sin, how are you going to recognize him? What's going to identify him as who and what he really is?

 

[nikolai_42]

So when Jesus warned against deception He was thinking of a physical profile to look out for? You have put up one or two verses that are of doubtful value in absolutely identifying the human representation of Satan’s activity on earth and can only make assertions (which have not been validated but are often admittedly guesses) on the fleshly appearance of this man? Now do you understand why I was more interested in a spiritual rather than physical identity?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[meshak]

Your post is way too long and it is against the rule, you should delete it.

 

[nikolai_42]

I didn't bother putting up all the scriptures that support this as it's a lot but if that's what you want here it is but I bet you don't read it all:

{snipped for brevity}

Well done if you read it all!

I just wanted to let you know I am trying to take it all in and consider it. But my experience has been that this way of identifying any prophetic figure in scripture (eschatological, at least) who is still expected to appear is fraught with difficulties. And the best way I know to characterize it is to repeat this scripture :

He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Matthew 16:2-4

My point is not to call anyone a Pharisee - rather to point out that the signs (external markers) the Jews sought were an indication of their unbelief. Jesus told them plainly that there was something they needed to look for - not something to tickle their ears or eyes, but a straightforward assessment of the prevailing spirit of the age and indicators that could be easily confirmed by looking at scripture. They wanted signs to validate Jesus' claim to be God (and Jesus did heal...so they even had that) but the real problem was they simply didn't believe. His healings confirmed the faith of those the believed (it didn't create it). In other words - what they were looking for wasn't primarily external but something more definitive. To link that to prophecy, John said that the number of the beast was given for those that have wisdom to calculate. That wasn't an invitation to engage in all sorts of questionable manipulations of numbers and letters - but it was a note to those who were given eyes to see and ears to hear. In the words found in the book of Daniel :

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Daniel 12:10

Here, wisdom is directly contrasted with wickedness. In other words, it is primarily of moral quality, not academic rigor (though that certainly comes into play). So in trying to wade through the endless theories of who the AntiChrist is, who the False Prophet is, who the beast is (etc...), I am only strengthened in my conviction that this emphasis on externals is evidence that people love their theories more than the truth or even possibly that there is mass unbelief (will Christ find faith on the earth when He returns?). And even were someone to stumble over the true identity, they wouldn't (I don't believe) have the right grounding to evidence it and would still be subject to the deception. Just knowing the name and/or face and/or position of whoever the Man of Sin or the AntiChrist is does very little to arm anyone against their deception if they aren't more concerned with the nature of the truth (thus arming them to recognize a spiritual counterfeit) and with the basis of that individual's actions and intents. However, if you know what lies beneath the surface first, then when the MoS, AntiChrist, False Prophet etc... arrives on the scene, it will be clear who they are. Not from appearances or lineages or political activities, but because the spiritual causes and effects centering around this individual's appearing are well known (thus, signs of the times).

Having said that, I am still interested in your reasoning behind the identifications you provided. I am reading (sorry it takes me so long but I don't have a lot of time at once to devote to this) and will certainly respond when and as I can.

 

[meshak]

It is this type of belief that is one of worst deceptions from Satan, as it is actively trying to hide Satan's Anti-Christ who will appear and at the same time blind Christians to what God tells us will cause the apostasy of the Church. You are thoroughly deceived and are ripe for the coming delusion.

The Apostasy is coming! Don't be deceived.

who is the Babylon the great that mentioned in the book of revelation?

 

[genuineoriginal]

who is the Babylon the great that mentioned in the book of revelation?

Babylon the great is the city that hosts the largest number of Jews outside of the land of Israel.
At this time, New York City, New York, USA has the largest number of Jews of any city in the world outside of the land of Israel.

Jews in New York City
There are approximately 1.5 million Jews (as of 2001) in the New York metropolitan area, making it the second largest metropolitan Jewish community in the world, after the Tel Aviv Metropolitan Area in Israel (however, Tel Aviv proper has a smaller population of Jews than New York City proper, making New York City the largest community of Jews in the world within a city proper).​

 

[beloved57]

WARNING! Apostasy about to happen.

You late !

 

[meshak]

Babylon the great is the city that hosts the largest number of Jews outside of the land of Israel.
At this time, New York City, New York, USA has the largest number of Jews of any city in the world outside of the land of Israel.

Jews in New York City
There are approximately 1.5 million Jews (as of 2001) in the New York metropolitan area, making it the second largest metropolitan Jewish community in the world, after the Tel Aviv Metropolitan Area in Israel (however, Tel Aviv proper has a smaller population of Jews than New York City proper, making New York City the largest community of Jews in the world within a city proper).​

So what do you think it is all about?

 

[genuineoriginal]

So what do you think it is all about?

Revelation 18:1-5 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.​

Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Babylon is the city of Nebuchadnezzar that the children of Israel went into when Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed by the Chaldeans the first time.
Because of that, Babylon refers to the captivity of the children of Israel in the Gentile nations, not just the city named Babylon.
"Come out of her, my people" is telling the children of Israel to come out of the Gentile nations and return to the land of Israel.
But, the verses also show that the great city, New York City, will be destroyed and that the children of Israel living there will need to flee the city to escape the destruction.

The timing of the destruction is found in previous verses.
The woman is sitting on a beast.
The woman is called a great city and a beast in Prophecy refers to an empire.
The city is New York City and the empire is the USA.
The seven heads of the beast are seven kings, or in the case of the USA they would be seven living presidents.
The timing is given by stating that five have fallen, one is, and one is not yet come.
The five that have fallen are living ex-presidents, the one that is would be the current president, which leaves the one that is not yet come.
The USA has a short period of time between the election of a president in November and the time that president assumes office in January.
This elected president would be the one that is not yet come.

Here is a list of the current presidents of the United States:
Five have fallen

1. George H. W. Bush
2. Barack Obama
3. George W. Bush
4. Bill Clinton
5. Jimmy Carter

one who is

1. Donald Trump

If all of these presidents are still alive when the next president is elected in 2020, then we will know that the time of the prophecy has come and New York City will soon be destroyed.
If any of those presidents die before the next president is elected, then the time would be seen at the next election where there are five living ex-presidents and one current president.

 

[meshak]

Revelation 18:1-5 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.​

Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Babylon is the city of Nebuchadnezzar that the children of Israel went into when Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed by the Chaldeans the first time.
Because of that, Babylon refers to the captivity of the children of Israel in the Gentile nations, not just the city named Babylon.
"Come out of her, my people" is telling the children of Israel to come out of the Gentile nations and return to the land of Israel.
But, the verses also show that the great city, New York City, will be destroyed and that the children of Israel living there will need to flee the city to escape the destruction.

The timing of the destruction is found in previous verses.
The woman is sitting on a beast.
The woman is called a great city and a beast in Prophecy refers to an empire.
The city is New York City and the empire is the USA.
The seven heads of the beast are seven kings, or in the case of the USA they would be seven living presidents.
The timing is given by stating that five have fallen, one is, and one is not yet come.
The five that have fallen are living ex-presidents, the one that is would be the current president, which leaves the one that is not yet come.
The USA has a short period of time between the election of a president in November and the time that president assumes office in January.
This elected president would be the one that is not yet come.

Here is a list of the current presidents of the United States:
Five have fallen

1. George H. W. Bush
2. Barack Obama
3. George W. Bush
4. Bill Clinton
5. Jimmy Carter

one who is

1. Donald Trump

If all of these presidents are still alive when the next president is elected in 2020, then we will know that the time of the prophecy has come and New York City will soon be destroyed.
If any of those presidents die before the next president is elected, then the time would be seen at the next election where there are five living ex-presidents and one current president.

I think you are missing the whole picture what it is all about.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I think you are missing the whole picture what it is all about.

I answered the questions, "who is the Babylon the great that mentioned in the book of revelation?" and "So what do you think it is all about?"

There is a lot more to the whole picture.

After the end of the seventy "weeks" prophecy (around 33 CE), the times of the Gentiles began.
The times of the Gentiles is also known as the time of Jacob's trouble and the great tribulation.

The prophecies in Revelation are primarily focused on the children of Israel and not on Gentile Christians.
The seven sealed scroll is about the great tribulation.
The seven trumpets are the gathering of the children of Israel back to the land of Israel.
The seven bowls are the wrath of God on the Gentile nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during the great tribulation.

The first mention of the beast empire is when he kills the two witnesses near the end of the seven trumpets in Revelation 11.
More about the beast empire is found in Revelation 13, which takes place during the seven trumpets.
The beast empire makes war against the saints and overcomes them, and the choice must be made of whether to accept the mark of the beast or refuse it.

Accepting the mark of the beast is the apostasy mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

 

[meshak]

I answered the questions, "who is the Babylon the great that mentioned in the book of revelation?" and "So what do you think it is all about?"

There is a lot more to the whole picture.

After the end of the seventy "weeks" prophecy (around 33 CE), the times of the Gentiles began.
The times of the Gentiles is also known as the time of Jacob's trouble and the great tribulation.

The prophecies in Revelation are primarily focused on the children of Israel and not on Gentile Christians.
The seven sealed scroll is about the great tribulation.
The seven trumpets are the gathering of the children of Israel back to the land of Israel.
The seven bowls are the wrath of God on the Gentile nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during the great tribulation.

The first mention of the beast empire is when he kills the two witnesses near the end of the seven trumpets in Revelation 11.
More about the beast empire is found in Revelation 13, which takes place during the seven trumpets.
The beast empire makes war against the saints and overcomes them, and the choice must be made of whether to accept the mark of the beast or refuse it.

Accepting the mark of the beast is the apostasy mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

It is very simple to me.

The Babylon is organizations.

Jesus says to "come out of her My people".

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm of the OPINION that, no one can ascertain what all of the symbology of Revelation actually means. We can theorize, guess, and contemplate, however, in the end analysis, we cannot call any of our opinions; Gospel. After all, we're trying to interpret 'Spiritual matters' with our physical/fleshly minds. We must keep in mind, the book of Revelation is basically a book of Spiritual symbols. It could be that God doesn't want us privy to certain details within that particular book?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It is very simple to me.

The Babylon is organizations.

Jesus says to "come out of her My people".

One of your problems is, you have rejected the Gospel that the Apostle Paul was given, via; the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, you're not a member of the 'Body of Christ' nor are you indwelt by the Holy Spirit. In other words, you're not a 'True Christian.' No matter how hard you try, you'll not be able to Spiritually discern what the Scriptures are saying. After all, by your own admission you don't believe anything the Apostle Paul has written. You basically stick to Matthew through John (The four Gospels) which were written, regarding the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It is very simple to me.

The Babylon is organizations.

The scriptures clearly teach that Babylon is a large city.

Revelation 17:18 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.​

There is no reason to change Babylon from a large city into multiple organizations.

 

[meshak]

The scriptures clearly teach that Babylon is a large city.

Revelation 17:18 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.​

.

I know but it is filled with pagan religion and it is used as metaphor for fake faith. This is my contextual reasoning.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I know but it is filled with pagan religion and it is used as metaphor for fake faith. This is my contextual reasoning.

Oh, you meant to say; "This is off the top of my hat."

 

[genuineoriginal]

I know but it is filled with pagan religion and it is used as metaphor for fake faith. This is my contextual reasoning.

That thinking led the early Protestants to label the Vatican (Roman Catholic) as Babylon.
Later Protestants have changed that to any denomination they consider has false teachings.

However, when the symbols used in prophecy are provided with a definite meaning, then not using that meaning is changing scripture to mean whatever you want it to mean instead of what the prophecy was intended to mean.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
~Through the Looking-Glass​

 

[meshak]

That thinking led the early Protestants to label the Vatican (Roman Catholic) as Babylon.
Later Protestants have changed that to any denomination they consider has false teachings.

However, when the symbols used in prophecy are provided with a definite meaning, then not using that meaning is changing scripture to mean whatever you want it to mean instead of what the prophecy was intended to mean.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
~Through the Looking-Glass​

I don't follow organizations' reasoning.

Babylon is clear to me. Jesus says to "come out of her". We should not be in the organization.