unfinished business

heir

TOL Subscriber
I believe regenerated souls WILL persevere and endure to the end, due to the preserving and protecting presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Why did these not "preserve" and "endure to the end"?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

After all, they were once enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. What happened to them? How can you be sure that will not happen to you?
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
We are not "regenerated" as we never had the HG to begin with.

Uh, such is the very purpose of regeneration. To be raised from spiritual death to new spiritual life, by the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit, who makes the new creature His temple. He indwells the raised sinner, which is the earnest (down-payment)that guarantees everlasting life. Ephesians 1:13-14, II Corinthians 5:5


The washing of regeneration and renewing of the HG is the Lord's shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour/not ours, but His shed on us (Titus 3:4-7 KJV)!

Agreed! It is this miracle of being born away, and baptized with the Holy Spirit, that provides us with new hearts of flesh to believe the Gospel, when we hear it proclaimed with new ears to hear.

So simple and yet twisted by the religionist like yourself.

I have no idea how you think I am twisting the teachings of John 3:1-8 that reveal regeneration of the sinner to new life in Christ Jesus through the power of His Holy Spirit.

Those who had to endure to the end to be saved did so by DOING something including keeping the commandments, selling all, on and on. Is that what you say we must do to be saved?

I believe I already explained "endurance" as receiving faith and repentance; being sanctified, protected, and persevering due to the indwelling Holy Spirit. Endurance is as monergistic (solely of God) as justification, reconciliation, and sanctification. God alone gets the glory for being the instrument of our overcoming all things.

Why would you deny what was and will be required for Israel? Their salvation was dependent upon them doing something by faith (James 2:18 KJV):

Repent, and believe the gospel (Mark 1:4 KJV) by baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4 KJV, Mark 16:16 KJV, Acts 2:38 KJV), keep the commandments (John 14:15 KJV, Matthew 23:2-3 KJV, John 15:5-10 KJV), endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 10:22 KJV), go through the trial of their faith (1 Peter 1:7 KJV), receiving the end of their faith, even the salvation of their souls (1 Peter 1:9 KJV). That salvation is of the grace that "should" come unto them (Acts 15:11 KJV, 1 Peter 1:10 KJV) looking forward that their sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (which is at what many refer to as the second coming of the Lord (Acts 3:19-21 KJV).

None of this criteria can be met by sinners (whether Jews or Gentiles) under the demands of the Law. For all fall short. All of this is only met by faith in Jesus Christ (whether Jew or Gentile). All that the Law demanded, He provides for His children.

You do not get to spiritualize away clear commandments from the Lord to His people, Israel, past and future!

Correct! The commandments stand forever! The question is: who is able to fulfill all these commands? Jesus Christ alone could and did, on behalf of His spiritual offspring. Romans 3:9-26

You're wrong as usual. The word of truth is specific as preached by Paul as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV). Why don't you believe it?

I DO believe it. I simply do not limit the message to only these few verses. I believe the Gospel was promised throughout history by God to all the O.T. saints, as well as all the N.T. saints, and we are one body of believers (church) who will share in Christ's inheritance of the Heavenly Kingdom. (Ephesians 1:3-12)

I am a student of Covenant Theology, which is a broad approach to understanding all the Scriptures; and is quite the opposite of Dispensational theology, that fractures history and God's workings, losing sight that God is a Covenantal God who has dealt with His own through the power of His grace and promises of The Savior, from the very beginning.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Why did these not "preserve" and "endure to the end"?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

After all, they were once enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. What happened to them? How can you be sure that will not happen to you?

These passages warn of hypocrites, who attach themselves to Christian assemblies of believers; mimicking the lifestyle, worship, and profession of faith in Jesus Christ . .
but who were never regenerated to new spiritual life in Christ, nor indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

They are counterfeit Christians.

These do NOT endure, for they are not born again, justified, sanctified, or indwelt with the Spirit of God:

"These went out from us (believing church), but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." I John 2:19

"Now the just shall live by faith, but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him. (cp Habakkuk 2:3-4) But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." Hebrews 10:38-39

"But you have the anointing of the Holy One, and you know all things." I John 2:20
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Uh, such is the very purpose of regeneration. To be raised from spiritual death to new spiritual life, by the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit, who makes the new creature His temple. He indwells the raised sinner, which is the earnest (down-payment)that guarantees everlasting life. Ephesians 1:13-14, II Corinthians 5:5
The point flies right over your head every time! The REgeneration is not ours, but His as we didn't have the HG to begin with so there would be no "re" to be had!


Agreed! It is this miracle of being born away, and baptized with the Holy Spirit, that provides us with new hearts of flesh to believe the Gospel, when we hear it proclaimed with new ears to hear.
I have no idea what you are talking about and we are not baptized "with the Holy Spirit". There is but one baptism for us and it is BY one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV, Ephesians 4:5 KJV). When will you get the baptizer right concerning us?

I have no idea how you think I am twisting the teachings of John 3:1-8 that reveal regeneration of the sinner to new life in Christ Jesus through the power of His Holy Spirit.
Regeneration (resurrection) for Israel is the second coming of the Lord (Ezekiel 37, Matthew 19:28 KJV)! It has NOTHING to do with us!


I believe I already explained "endurance" as receiving faith and repentance; being sanctified, protected, and persevering due to the indwelling Holy Spirit. Endurance is as monergistic (solely of God) as justification, reconciliation, and sanctification. God alone gets the glory for being the instrument of our overcoming all things.
Those who had/will have to endure to the end to be saved did so/will do so by DOING something including keeping the commandments. Is that what you say we must do to be saved?



None of this criteria can be met by sinners (whether Jews or Gentiles) under the demands of the Law. For all fall short. All of this is only met by faith in Jesus Christ (whether Jew or Gentile). All that the Law demanded, He provides for His children.
Christ commanded obedience to the law in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Why do you deny it when the evidence for such is overwhelming?

Correct! The commandments stand forever! [/QUOTE]You claim it's written to you, so do it (Matthew 23:1-3 KJV)!


I DO believe it.
No, you don't! You said the word of truth is the Lord, but you're wrong...as usual!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
These passages warn of hypocrites, who attach themselves to Christian assemblies of believers; mimicking the lifestyle, worship, and profession of faith in Jesus Christ . .
but who were never regenerated to new spiritual life in Christ, nor indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Nope. Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV is written to those who must endure to the end to be saved in one accord with Matthew 24:13 KJV, but it's not talking about ANYONE in the dispensation of the grace of God!
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Nope. Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV is written to those who must endure to the end to be saved in one accord with Matthew 24:13 KJV, but it's not talking about ANYONE in the dispensation of the grace of God!

It is clearly speaking of those who draw back to perdition.

It is obvious you have no clue as to the import of this passage or any desire to see the truth revealed therein.

So be it . . .
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
You said the word of truth is the Lord, but you're wrong...as usual!

The Word is the Logos of God; Jesus Christ the Son of God, come in the flesh. John 1:1-14

You deny Him.

To deny Him and His name, as being the sole power to save, is evidence of unbelief and a desire to deceive others.


:nono:
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
It is clearly speaking of those who draw back to perdition.
There is clearly an IF attached to their salvation!

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The above is one of the reasons we can know that this is not written TO those of us who have trusted the Lord believing the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). The Hebrews passage is in contrast to what the apostle Paul wrote to us about our eternal security (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Not anyone amongst the MAD crowd, for sure . . .
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.That's not you or anyone else today! Fess up!

We have to consider

2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.


and study!


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

There'd be no need if the 1 John passage was members of the BoC!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
The Word is the Logos of God; Jesus Christ the Son of God, come in the flesh. John 1:1-14

You deny Him.

To deny Him and His name, as being the sole power to save, is evidence of unbelief and a desire to deceive others.


:nono:
The word of truth according to Paul is the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV) which is not the Lord. The Lord is not an IT (Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)! You are so spoiled (Colossians 2:8 KJV).
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
There is clearly an IF attached to their salvation!

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The above is one of the reasons we can know that this is not written TO those of us who have trusted the Lord believing the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). The Hebrews passage is in contrast to what the apostle Paul wrote to us about our eternal security (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)!

What I say . . . These are warnings given to counterfeits who associate with, and pass themselves off, as being Christians, who do not endure unto salvation, but eventually draw back to perdition, because they were never truly regenerated and anointed with the Holy Spirit of God.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
The word of truth according to Paul is the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV) which is not the Lord. The Lord is not an IT (Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)! You are so spoiled (Colossians 2:8 KJV).

Blasphemy.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Word come in flesh as Savior of His brethren. John 1:14; Hebrews 2:14-18
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
What I say . . . These are warnings given to counterfeits who associate with, and pass themselves off, as being Christians, who do not endure unto salvation, but eventually draw back to perdition, because they were never truly regenerated and anointed with the Holy Spirit of God.
What you say is not scripture. Scripture says they were once enlightened, had tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, but if they fell away it was impossible for them to be renewed again unto repentance!

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

There's no need to attempt to change it to your "What I say". It means what it says!
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
What I say . . . These are warnings given to counterfeits who associate with, and pass themselves off, as being Christians, who do not endure unto salvation, but eventually draw back to perdition, because they were never truly regenerated and anointed with the Holy Spirit of God.

Are you BRAVE enough to name, names? Or, is that confidential?
 
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