Uncritical Acceptance of Atheist Nonsense Breeds Killers

[brewmama]

Sometimes it does, and sometimes it does not. Most times it does not. We are social animals, and so we have a strong sense that the preservation of our 'tribe' is directly related to the preservation of ourselves. And this has been so since before the invention of 'religion'. It is not a religious principal. It is a universal human inclination that most regions have adopted as a part of their ideology.

You are so ignorant of religious ideology. Self-preservation is hardly a bedrock of religious principles, hence Christ being crucified, and the numerous martyrs of the Church.
As your own post above states.
Try again.

 

[This Charming Manc]

As a proportion of population 1 in 10,000, as a percentage 0.01% hardly a majority is it?

looks like "lots" to me

even "many" :idunno:

 

[PureX]

You are so ignorant of religious ideology. Self-preservation is hardly a bedrock of religious principles, hence Christ being crucified, and the numerous martyrs of the Church.
As your own post above states.
Try again.

There is no point. You clearly cannot read and comprehend what you're reading.

 

[ok doser]

As a proportion of population 1 in 10,000, as a percentage 0.01% hardly a majority is it?

nobody was claiming a majority

the claim was "lots" and "many"


256,000 sure looks like lots to me

one might even say many :idunno:

 

[quip]

All wild animals believe that "living is better than dying".
Ask lions and hyenas if that utterly dominating survival instinct has ended the war between them,
or created any need to cooperate to acquire food more effectively or abundantly.

Ask lions and hyenas? :chuckle:

No. Wild animals don't "believe" any such thing at all....lest some would "believe" in god as well (if you'd only bother to ask. :loser: )...though, as a result your silly flawed premise would be rendered absurd. As it stands, your credibility or rather lackthereof had me at "ask lions and hyenas".

As comic relief....it was a splendid notion.

 

[ok doser]

we could drop them out of airplanes to check and see if they have morals :idunno:

 

[quip]

we could drop them out of airplanes to check and see if they have morals :idunno:

We could drop you...and check the veracity of your faith! :devil:

 

[badp]

"Many"?

I hardly think so.

What is the ratio of people who do not kill themselves to people who do? I'm not going to bother looking it up, but I am CERTAIN that it's massively skewed in favor of those who do not.

Let's put it this way. How many people walk out of a Christian church on Sunday morning then go kill themselves?

Now how many people say, "I don't know if God's real, I don't really know that I want to live anymore. When I die it will all be over." and then kill themselves?

And my point still stands: atheism can form no moral argument against murder.

 

[quip]

And my point still stands: atheism can form no moral argument against murder.

Your point has no legs for such a stand.

You don't need religion to know that death is the antithesis of life, liberty and happiness; you don't need religion in order to cultivate empathy and compassion; you don't need religion in order to feel the instinct for survival...animals have this very instinct, though Naz might prefer to ask them first. :think:

 

[badp]

Your point has no legs for such a stand.

You don't need religion to know that death is the antithesis of life, liberty and happiness; you don't need religion in order to cultivate empathy and compassion; you don't need religion in order to feel the instinct for survival...animals have this very instinct, though Naz might prefer to ask them first. :think:

Then refute it. You're talking about liberty, happiness, empathy, compassion.. but you haven't touched morality.

 

[Truster]

A famous saying: Garbage in, garbage out.

Some people's narrative seems to prove that a large part of humanity
simply lacks not only basic critical acumen skills,
but more importantly, they also lack an ability to create a world-view that
rises above the shallow garbage-world that the media perpetuates,
for both profit and ideological reasons.

When a vulnerable child without the ability to be an independent thinker in a good way,
is flooded with selfish atheistic values, and is surrounded by a mixed message from
their surrounding environment, including parents, peers, and society at large,
as well as an artificial 'world' created by the media hucksters,
that child has the potential to explode like a fire-cracker in violence,
as it seeks and craves for an ever-increasing "need" for attention.

The five killers in the following video appear to have something in common:
an inability to forge a sane and reasonable world-view which would for most of us
provide a reliable moral compass.

All of them criticise and reject religions, and pour out anger upon women, peers,
the world, and all of them somehow 'reason out' a belief that targeted groups
or the world in general have failed to provide for their narcisistic addiction.

At the same time, they don't perceive that their cravings for attention, "needs",
or personal 'failure' in or dissatisfaction with the world is not a normal condition,
but one that requires both intervention, and also self-reevaluation,
as well as reconstruction of their world-view.

The rest of humanity needs to take positive curative action towards these potential breakdowns,
not because they deserve special attention, but from a self-defence, preventative
and cost-analysis viewpoint.

Kids who need help or are falling into the wrong path need early notice, for everyone's sake.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5qfuKKb-K8

Atheism is not a choice.

 

[quip]

Then refute it. You're talking about liberty, happiness, empathy, compassion.. but you haven't touched morality.

I did.

Those all have moral implications. If you're too blind or lazy to recognize those implication without some hand-holding, dogmatic decree ....then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[badp]

I did.

Those all have moral implications. If you're too blind or lazy to recognize those implication without some hand-holding, dogmatic decree ....then I don't know what to tell you.

Go back and read my original statement. I didn't say "moral implications."

 

[quip]

Go back and read my original statement. I didn't say "moral implications."

ummm ok. You stated, verbatim: "atheism can form no moral argument against murder."

I then proceeded to answer your unsupported accusation with several specific examples of morality that need not a religious/dogmatic justification.

Exactly where along this path did I lose you?

 

[rexlunae]

Excellent point. Any moral abhorrence atheists might have on killing is merely piggybacked onto religious principles that are ingrained in culture.

It's actually the opposite. To the degree that religions condemn certain acts, like murder, it's because they get those principles from the people who created the religions. Nietzsche was mistaken. Religious morality piggybacks on secular morality, even as it often distorts and corrupts it.

 

[brewmama]

It's actually the opposite. To the degree that religions condemn certain acts, like murder, it's because they get those principles from the people who created the religions. Nietzsche was mistaken. Religious morality piggybacks on secular morality, even as it often distorts and corrupts it.

You're not real clear on religious history are you? What secular morality did religion piggyback on? The French Revolution? Stalin? Mao? What secular morality existed before any religion?

 

[rexlunae]

You're not real clear on religious history are you? What secular morality did religion piggyback on? The French Revolution? Stalin? Mao? What secular morality existed before any religion?

The morality that is innate in our species.

 

[brewmama]

The morality that is innate in our species.

The religious concept of natural law? Ok, so you agree with St. Paul that "even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it."

 

[rexlunae]

The religious concept of natural law? Ok, so you agree with St. Paul that "even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it."

That's a religious casting of it, I suppose. But even on its own terms, Paul is observing something apart from religion.

 

[brewmama]

Your point has no legs for such a stand.

You don't need religion to know that death is the antithesis of life, liberty and happiness; you don't need religion in order to cultivate empathy and compassion; you don't need religion in order to feel the instinct for survival...animals have this very instinct, though Naz might prefer to ask them first. :think:

You certainly cannot prove that. In fact, it's rather easy to prove otherwise. Animals certainly kill each other for survival...

And secular moralities have, as was known would happen, failed.

"The main “sign” of our times is that intellectual modernism has lost its “faith.” Once upon a time, people really believed that the modern philosophies, sciences, and social theories would provide an order of truth to replace the worldview of Christendom. The modern “isms” were proposed as true, defended as true, and hoped in as true. We need to give credit where it is due to the “modern” worldview. It was not shy in defending modernism as true; nor did it hesitate to impose its conception of truth upon public institutions. From Kiev to Lisbon, and from London to Chicago, the modern intellectual elites created a mandatory system of education to bring the minds of the masses into the light of truth, as they understood it.

In his famous Terry Lectures, given at Yale in the 1930s, John Dewey called it the “common faith.” In short, the “common faith” is belief that scientific rationality, emancipated from all claims concerning transcendent truth, would inevitably produce a civilization worth living in.

At the end of the twentieth century, this secular “faith” is in tatters."



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