Two grown men encouraged to play pretend game in public

shagster01

shagster01

New member
Angel4Truth said:
Its really ironic to see your objection to God as being the "slaughtering of innocent children" when you support abortion, mind blowing actually
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I don't think you read the sequence of posts. I objected to nothing that God did in this post. What I did say is that there is no absolute good and evil. That is what I was proving. God said murder is bad in one breath and commanded Israelite to kill all men and women, young and old, in a city in the next. What I was saying is sometimes "bad" is the "right" thing to do.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
I did say is that there is no absolute good and evil.
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Your own heart and conscience, what's left of them, tell you that that's a lie. If someone were to mercilessly and slowly slaughter your wife and children, everything inside you would scream in outrage for justice for their blood. This goes far beyond mourning their loss and that's the way we all are, without exception. That proves absolute good and absolute evil have to exist, else we would have no such built-in moral and, yes, spiritual responses predicated upon them. Something inside all of us tells us that, ultimately, something will be done about ALL injustice. Don't pretend you're different from the rest of us because you're not.

But all this is really window dressing, pretending to disguise what these issues always come down to for you and Grannie: you trying to condemn God for having the audacity to be God.
 
Granite

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
musterion said:
Your own heart and conscience, what's left of them, tell you that that's a lie. If someone were to mercilessly and slowly slaughter your wife and children, everything inside you would scream in outrage for justice for their blood. This goes far beyond mourning their loss and that's the way we all are, without exception. That proves absolute good and absolute evil have to exist, else we would have no such built-in moral and, yes, spiritual responses predicated upon them. Something inside all of us tells us that, ultimately, something will be done about ALL injustice. Don't pretend you're different from the rest of us because you're not.

But all this is really window dressing, pretending to disguise what these issues always come down to for you and Grannie: you trying to condemn God for having the audacity to be God.
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No, I just so happen to take issue with audacity from other people. Trust me, that's more than enough.

Your own blood-soaked bizarre Internet rage might make you feel better--which is bad in and of itself--but the presumption and arrogance behind it's predictable and boring, at this rate.

By the way, what is with your imagination? I'm the big bad atheist here and the only person who's talking about torture and sadism is a Christian.
 
Zeke

Zeke

Well-known member
nikolai_42 said:
For starters, the spiritual lives of everyone connected with that church is in jeopardy...

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities
Revelation 18:4-5

The point there is that there are two distinct people : the people of God and those identified with Babylon. Even though distinct, the people of God in Babylon are to separate from the influence lest they approve what God calls wicked and get caught up in the judgment due the unrepentant Babylonian.

Maybe a little more direct :

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18

The one who approves what God calls sin is not a believer. To take that into a church and foist that on others is to raise an idol in the church. It's bad enough when it happens at all, but when it is going on in a church in direct violation of the teaching of the scriptures (which are supposed to be the foundation of the teaching of the church), it's confusion (which is what "Babylon" means). The point being that anyone who identifies with someone who is a rebellious, unrepentant sinner (like someone wanting to justify homosexuality and have others approve of it - much less under the banner of Christianity!) is not someone God approves of. It is clear that they put themselves in great spiritual danger. Even more, the one who pastors the church in that direction :

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
James 3:1

The bottom line is if one is serving God, one will not approve of what He disapproves. Just that basic point of worship alone (regardless of the religion) should be clear. If one violates the principles upon which the faith is based, one violates the faith and at leasts mocks it. And if one believes God is the author of that faith, one has God to answer to.
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Speaking of Babylon do you have her ID and license etc? I bet ya do which makes you a H_________ with a phony faith.
 
shagster01

shagster01

New member
musterion said:
Your own heart and conscience, what's left of them, tell you that that's a lie. If someone were to mercilessly and slowly slaughter your wife and children, everything inside you would scream in outrage for justice for their blood. This goes far beyond mourning their loss and that's the way we all are, without exception. That proves absolute good and absolute evil have to exist, else we would have no such built-in moral and, yes, spiritual responses predicated upon them. Something inside all of us tells us that, ultimately, something will be done about ALL injustice. Don't pretend you're different from the rest of us because you're not.
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That has nothing to do with absolute good and evil. I would want to kill that man personally for justice. But that has nothing to do with morality. In fact, I'd most likely want to seek my revenge on him in "immoral" ways myself.

How does a man during a horrible thing causing me to want to do a horrible thing prove absolute good and evil?

But all this is really window dressing, pretending to disguise what these issues always come down to for you and Grannie: you trying to condemn God for having the audacity to be God.
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I condemned your God for nothing. In fact, I essentially said I agree with his showing of situational decision making.

You are only seeing what you want in these posts. This was an A and B conversation.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
shagster01 said:
Slaughtering all women and children at Jericho goes beyond "war."
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If capital punishment is a reasonable (even if you don't agree with it) punishment for treason, then what happened there was understandable. Gruesome, yes, but the Midianites were introducing idol-worship into Israel. The Israelites, then, were guilty of treason and the Midianites guilty of inciting it. They were decapitated and their heads posted to remind the people of the seriousness of idolatry. If all of Israel defected, they would be lost. It was a genuine "us or them" situation. And this was a true Theocracy, remember.
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

New member
It's always interesting to see those arguing for "moral absolutes" then turn around and try and say genocide isn't absolutely immoral.
 
shagster01

shagster01

New member
nikolai_42 said:
If capital punishment is a reasonable (even if you don't agree with it) punishment for treason, then what happened there was understandable. Gruesome, yes, but the Midianites were introducing idol-worship into Israel. The Israelites, then, were guilty of treason and the Midianites guilty of inciting it. They were decapitated and their heads posted to remind the people of the seriousness of idolatry. If all of Israel defected, they would be lost. It was a genuine "us or them" situation. And this was a true Theocracy, remember.
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So...

"You worship idols. That's so evil that I have to kill your children."

...That proves the opposite of absolute morality.
 
Angel4Truth

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
shagster01 said:
So? Does that make it right for Israel to kill them too?
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If God says so, yes.

Unlike us, God knows the future. God knew what the results would be if Israel did not completely eradicate the Amalekites. If Israel did not carry out God’s orders, the Amalekites would come back to trouble the Israelites in the future. Saul claimed to have killed everyone but the Amalekite king Agag (1 Samuel 15:20). Obviously, Saul was lying—just a couple of decades later, there were enough Amalekites to take David and his men’s families captive (1 Samuel 30:1-2). After David and his men attacked the Amalekites and rescued their families, 400 Amalekites escaped. If Saul had fulfilled what God had commanded him, this never would have occurred. Several hundred years later, a descendant of Agag, Haman, tried to have the entire Jewish people exterminated (see the book of Esther). So, Saul’s incomplete obedience almost resulted in Israel’s destruction. God knew this would occur, so He ordered the extermination of the Amalekites ahead of time.

In regard to the Canaanites, God commanded, “In the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). The Israelites failed in this mission as well, and exactly what God said would happen occurred (Judges 2:1-3; 1 Kings 11:5; 14:24; 2 Kings 16:3-4). God did not order the extermination of these people to be cruel, but to prevent even greater evil from occurring in the future.

Probably the most difficult part of these commands from God is that God ordered the death of children and infants as well. Why would God order the death of innocent children? (1) Children are not innocent (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). (2) These children would have likely grown up as adherents to the evil religions and practices of their parents. (3) By ending their lives as children, God enabled them to have entrance into heaven. We strongly believe that all children who die are accepted into heaven by the grace and mercy of God (2 Samuel 12:22-23; Mark 10:14-15; Matthew 18:2-4).
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http://www.gotquestions.org/Canaanites-extermination.html

Theres a start for you to ponder, said much better than i can.
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

New member
Angel4Truth said:
If God says so, yes.
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Again we see that to fundamentalist Christians, whether or not something is moral or immoral has nothing to do with the act itself, but is only dependent on whether "God says so".

So I guess if God told them to kill a 3 month old baby, they would do it.
 
Granite

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
shagster01 said:
Exactly. Each case is unique. God uses situational moralism. Sometimes killing kids is immoral, and sometimes it's not.

There is no black and white right and wrong.
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Something's wrong with your moral framework when you can see situations where genocide is an acceptable option.
 
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