ECT Two Bodies of Believers in the NT

[genuineoriginal]

Yeah, Grosnick Marowbe is extremely immature and one of the BIGGEST phonies.
I have the Knucklehead on ignore. Grosnick Marowbe offends me with his phoney
arrogance.

:wave2:

 

[genuineoriginal]

I see it more as part applying to us as we were before we became members of the body of Christ, and part to us now (as members).

I can identify with the unbelievers and the religious (Jews)...all before faith came. So, when I read the OT, I understand what it was like for them...I can relate. It's why they say it's all written for us, but it's not all written TO us.

None of the Bible is written TO us.

Every year someone comes up with another way to interpret a passage or word in the Bible according to the world and culture they are living in and deny the interpretations that existed among the early Christian churches founded by Paul and the other Apostles.

 

[heir]

None of the Bible is written TO us.

Foolishness!~

Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Corinthians 14:27 KJV, Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV

Every year someone comes up with another way to interpret a passage or word in the Bible according to the world and culture they are living in and deny the interpretations that existed among the early Christian churches founded by Paul and the other Apostles.

No interpretations necessary when we believe the words on the page mean what they say, as they say it and to whom they say it.


:wazzup:

 

[heir]

Matthew 12:31-32 vs. 1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV

Acts 2:38 KJV vs. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV

James 2:20 KJV vs. Titus 3:5 KJV

1 John 1:9 KJV vs. Colossians 2:13 KJV

Are you claiming that you think the verses contradict each other?

Paul who could not have been forgiven in the world Jesus was in nor in the world to come (Matthew 12:31-32 KJV obtained mercy! The first and a pattern (1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV).

Acts 2:38 KJV tells them to do something for the remission of sins (not for salvation) while Paul's gospel tells us we are saved by the good news that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV!

James 2:20 KJV says faith without works is dead while Paul tells us not by works of righteousness which we have done, but accorsing to His mercy He saved us (Titus 3:5 KJV). That's not of works for you hard of hearing (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).

1 John 1:9 KJV says If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness yet Paul writes that we are forgiven all trespasses (Colossians 2:13 KJV) and the righteousness of God is upon us (Romans 3:21-22 KJV).

You can't make those the same if you try unless you lie! The truth is, there are two bodies of believers in the NT, and religion has been flubbing it up ever since they both existed side by side! Saved people today belong to the Body of Christ and not the body of believers of Matthew through John, the church of Acts 2,3,4,5, and Hebrews through Revelation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I've no trouble with sixth grade English.

The problem with you applying sixth grade English to the KJV is that it is not written in modern sixth grade English, it was written in Elizabethan English, and the meanings of many of the words have changed over the years.

The Bible was not written in modern sixth grade English.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic by people with different education levels.
The New Testament was written in Koine Greek by people with different education levels (Matthew was originally written in Hebrew with a Greek translation).

Paul was the highest educated writer of any New Testament book.
He had a university level education in both Greek and Hebrew.

Trying to apply modern sixth grade English translations of the Elizabethan English translation of the university level Koine Greek written by Paul will lead to major problems in your doctrine.

2 Peter 3:14-16 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.​

If you are insisting on using modern sixth grade English then you are unlearned.

You don't get to read someone else's mail and apply it TO yourself.

Well, that is exactly what you are doing with Paul's letters.

Your neighbor may have gotten registered mail that his wealthy Father left him land. Your reading his mail would not make his inheritance yours, but this is exactly what you and the religious system you come from would have us to believe. They want the blessings of Israel time past and future so much that they have attempted to steal it ignoring to whom it is entitled and ignoring who we are in the Body and the wonderful blessings (Ephesians 1:3 KJV) and inheritance that we in the Body have in Christ (Ephesians 2:6 KJV, Philippians 3:20-21 KJV, Colossians 3:1-4 KJV).

You are mistaken about the inheritance.

This is not to mention the doctrine that was never for our obedience that the religious system wants to chain around our ankles (Galatians 5:1 KJV).

Turning to full disobedience is not the answer.

I get to believe ALL (100%) of the Bible

No, you don't.
You deny most of it.

, while you and those like you must explain much of it away as not meaning what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it. You are stuck in the MUD and the only way out is salvation and 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!

Every verse in the Bible means what it says, and must be taken in context to properly understand it.

You have taken Paul's words out of the context of being written by a Jew that is passionate about the "law and the prophets" (Old Testament) and the promises that have been fulfilled in the manifestation of the Jewish Messiah (Christ).

 

[genuineoriginal]

No interpretations necessary when we believe the words on the page mean what they say, as they say it and to whom they say it.

If you started believing that, you wouldn't have the problems with correct doctrine that you are currently having.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Paul who could not have been forgiven in the world Jesus was in nor in the world to come (Matthew 12:31-32 KJV) obtained mercy! The first and a pattern (1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV).

Did Paul blaspheme against the Holy Ghost and declare Him a demon?
If you think he did, please provide proof.
If he did not, then the words of Jesus say Paul will be forgiven, since it falls under, "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men".

Acts 2:38 KJV tells them to do something for the remission of sins (not for salvation) while Paul's gospel tells us we are saved by the good news that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV!)

I see you are taking 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV out of the context of the rest of Paul's teachings.
Paul said who whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13) said God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) and showed by his actions that he considered baptism as part of believing unto salvation.

Acts 16:30-33 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.​

James 2:20 KJV says faith without works is dead while Paul tells us not by works of righteousness which we have done, but accorsing to His mercy He saved us (Titus 3:5 KJV). That's not of works for you hard of hearing (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).

If you have no works to show for your belief, then your belief is dead.
God saves whosoever He chooses to save, but He does not choose the disobedient and the unrepentant.

1 John 1:9 KJV says If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness yet Paul writes that we are forgiven all trespasses (Colossians 2:13 KJV) and the righteousness of God is upon us (Romans 3:21-22 KJV).

Why do you think that these are not the same?
Paul never said we were not to confess our sins, nor did Paul say we were not to repent of our sins.
You don't have the righteousness of God while you are still sinning.

You can't make those the same if you try unless you lie!

If you think these are mutually exclusive, then you should go back to sixth grade and try to pass it so you can get into seventh grade.

The truth is, there are two bodies of believers in the NT, and religion has been flubbing it up ever since they both existed side by side! Saved people today belong to the Body of Christ and not the body of believers of Matthew through John, the church of Acts 2,3,4,5, and Hebrews through Revelation.

The body of Christ is made up of all who call upon Him as their Lord and Savior.
Unfortunately, that excludes many of the Grace Gospel believers, since they deny that He is their Lord by their actions (they draw near with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him).

 

[jamie]

I'm not and you're not. So why did you bring it up?

Because it's part of Paul's teachings. It evidently doesn't apply to you.

Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. (Galatians 3:7 NKJV)

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29 NKJV)​

Abraham was a Hebrew. (Genesis 14:13)

But as you say, you're not.

 

[Danoh]

GO; care to give an example where applying simple, Basic Sixth Grade Elementary School Rules of English Reading Compreshension fail to enable one to get at the intended sense of any word or passage in the KJB?

On the Addiction thread I did just that when I gave my understanding about what Paul had meant in one passage by the phrase "this witness is true."

It is YOUR failure in understanding this simple principle that has you all over the map as the distinctions between things that differ that 2 Timothy makes obvious is the case in verse 15, when said Basic Sixth Grade Elementary School Rules of English Comprehension are applied to said passage and its accompanying passages in that chapter.

Here is another; in the following- the word "prevent" is an earlier form of the word we now use - the word "precede."

And yet HOW and in WHAT order it is used together with other words in the following reveals its intended sense "precede."

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Recently, while speaking with a client who had relocated his business, I asked him how things were going at his new location.

"Man o man," he replied "business is off the chain - I have so much more business now!"

I knew from HOW he had used the phrase "off the chain" WHAT he had meant by that - lol, and just like Scripture often does; he even told me what he'd meant by that via the latter half of his statement.

Yoh! John Dub-blee-uh, got nee seats left back there; I got me a feller here needs ta sit-OWnnn, right pronto lah-eek! Lol

 

[genuineoriginal]

GO; care to give an example where applying simple, Basic Sixth Grade Elementary School Rules of English Reading Compreshension fail to enable one to get at the intended sense of any word or passage in the KJB?

If you are relying on your sixth grade Elementary school rules for understanding the KJV, then you are doing it wrong.

The sixth grade Elementary school rules work fine for getting at the intended sense of verses in the NASB.

2 Timothy 2:15 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.​

The phrase "accurately handling" is a translation of ὀρθοτομέω orthotomeō, the same word used by the KJV for "rightly dividing".

_____
Septuagint Usage

It is not found outside of the Bible. In the Septuagint the word is used in Proverbs 3:6 and 11:5 where it is used to translate the intensive form of the verb yāshar (“to make straight”). Proverbs 3:6 stresses that the “straight path” comes with trusting God, while 11:5 teaches the “righteousness of the blameless will smooth his way” (NASB). In both, “make or keep straight” is a figurative description of making a straight path through a difficult area directly to the desired destination (cf. Bauer).

New Testament Usage

The use of the verb in 2 Timothy 2:15 is part of a metaphor where Timothy is urged to be a “good workman” in his handling of God’s Word. The emphasis is on the accurate and competent handling of the task. The RSV’s translation, “rightly handling the word of truth,” places the correct emphasis on accuracy, while the KJV’s use of “rightly dividing” gives more of a sense of guiding straight to the goal without distraction or disruption. In both cases the word implies a competent and truthful exposition of Scripture.

~ Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary
_____​

Since Paul is a university level Hebrew and Greek scholar, and used a Greek word only found in the Septuagint, then we must turn to the Old Testament for understanding of what the word means.

Proverbs 3:6 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.​

Proverbs 11:5 The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.​

 

[Danoh]

Lol; talk about the hazarda of an OVER reliance on "books about" this and that.

You still can't see that all that which you have just posted as to intended sense is in contrast to a deviation from a straight path and or a rightly handling of the word of truth.

You can't distinguish the one without that which differs from it. Duh-uh, lol

Not to mention I was already aware of all that which you just now posted. And I'm sure I am not alone in said awareness.

Over time, I found I simply did not need all that.

That the simple, yet rigorous, consistent application of the Basic 6th Grade Elementary Principle of who, what, when, where, why, how, in light, if not in conrast to same, is most all anyone ends up needing.

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

Who, what, when, where, why, how, etc.

Contrasts...
Contrasts...
Contrasts...

 

[Danoh]

Here GO, figure this out...

In line with all the above, what is the intended sense of the word "heresies" in the following passage?

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

[patrick jane]

Here GO, figure this out...

In line with all the above, what is the intended sense of the word "heresies" in the following passage?

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

You have it figured out, why not simply tell us ?

 

[Danoh]

You have it figured out, why not simply tell us ?

What are you; in the same class with him, lol

I'm challenging him to figure that one out by sticking to the basics he claims fail us.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Here GO, figure this out...

In line with all the above, what is the intended sense of the word "heresies" in the following passage?

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

You can find out by reading what was wrote by one of the people that was with Paul at the church of Corinth:

Irenæus Against Heresies

 

[Danoh]

You can find out by reading what was wrote by one of the people that was with Paul at the church of Corinth:

Irenæus Against Heresies

See what I meant, PJ?

With these book learned experts, it is ever anything but simply going to a passage itself to there wrestle with it in light of its surrounding passages until it yields its intended sense just as the angel finally gave Joshua what he had earned.

 

[heir]

Because it's part of Paul's teachings. It evidently doesn't apply to you.

Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. (Galatians 3:7 NKJV)

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29 NKJV)​

Abraham was a Hebrew. (Genesis 14:13)

But as you say, you're not.

We are not likened to the Gentiles to whom Paul was first like the Galatians that were heirs according to the promise as per Genesis 12:3 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV. Rather, we are likened to Gentiles like the Eophesians to whom Paul wrote the letter, who in time past were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV)!

 

[genuineoriginal]

See what I meant, PJ?

With these book learned experts, it is ever anything but simply going to a passage itself to there wrestle with it in light of its surrounding passages until it yields its intended sense just as the angel finally gave Joshua what he had earned.

Why do you ignore the book written about the heresies mentioned by Paul by someone that studied it while it was happening?

Are you so afraid that history will destroy your "belief"?

 

[Danoh]

Why do you ignore the book written about the heresies mentioned by Paul by someone that studied it while it was happening?

Are you so afraid that history will destroy your "belief"?

Same question back at you.

Seriously, you need to OVER rely on books "about" the Bible to understand the Bible?

 

[Interplanner]

Excellent explanations - I hope the MAD haters read this.

There's nothing worthwhile in it at all. It is the opposite of what the relevant passages of the NT say. There is no hint of 'you're reading someone else's estate documents' in the NT. Not a chance.

Everything hinges on Gal 3:17 and who replaced what there.