I've followed this tread and others of the same genre and, as an atheist disinterested (except for the topic I don't care one way or the other what theists choose to believe) outside observer, would like to make a few observations on the latest posts which, I think for the most part, sum the whole...
Because Jesus was God made flesh, the perfect mediator.
This is not taught in scripture. Where is your scriptural evidence?
No doubt trinitarians will quote John 1,
"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not. 6 There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 9 There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. 15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me. 16 For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
I find it interesting trinitarians say, "
The bible is filled with figurative (metaphorical)
language", EXCEPT FOR verses such as John 1:1-18.
Throughout GJohn Jesus says he delivers the words his deity has told him to speak. It stands to reason the meaning of John 1:1-18 is the "word was made flesh" through (because of) Jesus speaking the words he was given.
Because the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are coequally the one God.
This is not taught in scripture. Where is your scriptural evidence?
… and...
Because He is coequally the one God with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
This is not taught in scripture. Where is your scriptural evidence?
Perhaps the best among trinitarian "proof texts" on this is John 10...
"22 And it was the feast of the dedication at Jerusalem: 23 it was winter; and Jesus was walking in the temple in Solomon’s porch. 24 The Jews therefore came round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou hold us in suspense? If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, these bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one. 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), 36 say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do them, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
The writer of GJohn, whoever he was, is simply documenting what he observed and heard. He isn't drawing any conclusions, the mark of a good historian.
A common and overriding theme of GJohn is the Jews seem to NEVER understand what Jesus is saying even after he explains to them what he means, which is, unfortunately for the Jews, often equally obscure.
The term "son of god" is the title given to the king of the Jews. Saul and David were "sons of god". Jesus, as the messiah (Greek, "christ") was (to be) the future king of the Jews and by extension the son of god. Exactly why the Jews did not understand this fact is not explained but could be because of time removed from the events of Kings Saul and David.
The prayer Jesus gives to his deity in John 17 explains the meaning of, "I and the Father are one". Sadly, the Jews were not privy to this. The astute reader should notice reference to John 1 and the "word".
"17 These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify thee: 2 even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that to all whom thou hast given him, he should give eternal life. 3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ. 4 I glorified thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they know that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are from thee: 8 for the words which thou gavest me I have given unto them; and they received them, and knew of a truth that I came forth from thee, and they believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine: 10 and all things that are mine are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them. 11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I come to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy made full in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, even so sent I them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. 20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word;
21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one; 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me. 24 Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world knew thee not, but I knew thee; and these knew that thou didst send me; 26 and I made known unto them thy name, and will make it known; that the love wherewith thou lovedst me may be in them, and I in them."
Prooftexting won't get you anywhere here on TOL.
Neither will taking scriptures out of context, especially out of the context of the whole Bible.
You can't just ignore other verses because one verse says something else.
… which makes me wonder why trinitarians are so consistently guilty of ignoring texts contradicting their "doctrine" as shown above.
My conclusion:
Is Jesus "the word made flesh"? Literally, no. Metaphorically, yes.
Is Jesus "the son of god"? Physically and/or genetically, no. As heir to the throne of his father David, yes.
Is Jesus equal to god? No.
Is Jesus "god"? No.
