:darwinsm: You did not fix it. It still splits my post :ha:
Trinity Evidence False
- Thread starter Squeaky
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:darwinsm: You did not fix it. It still splits my post :ha:
Squeaky does not mind admitting heresy.
I said
You have had a trinity thread up there for a few weeks now. I just figured it was ok to post on the subject now.
:chuckle: Paul gave birth to Philemon.
It has been up for over a year with over 5000 posts. I don't mind yours at all.
All i means is that Philemon became Paul's Son.
I said
Do you mean like adoption or like disciple? either way he was begotten by Paul.
Yes
Shame on you Squeaky
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
I said
Why, it seems they are now allowing threads on the trinity. I even posted on one.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Sure we will. But there is a distinction.
We will be resurrected at the Second Coming of Christ by the power of God. We can't do that of our own power.
But Jesus did.
John 10:17-18: "“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.". (NKJV)
We don't have the power to take up our lives again because, unlike Jesus, we are not God.
But He had the power to do so because He is God.
By the way, I haven't had much luck (or seen others either) who can walk on water, change water to wine, raise the dead, etc.
.
Who says those are the basic rules? The bible doesn't say that.
read in context, Paul is warning against arrogance. He isn't saying what you are claiming, to base everything only on what was written. He can't be. Otherwise he would be contradicting himself when he equates the Apostles' teaching with the word of God:
1 Thess. 2:13: "For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe."
He isn't talking about what is written there. He is talking about what was orally taught. And he says that what is orally taught is the word of God.
Saying that "believers should base all their beliefs on what is written" is an addition and it takes away Paul's exhortation to hold fast to oral tradition:
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle." (2 Thess. 2:15)
See? Paul is saying to believe what you were taught whether by epistle (written) or by word (authoritative oral teaching).
The big difference is that Jesus had the power to take up His life again. And He did.
We don't. God has to do that for us. Or I imagine people throughout the centuries would arise just like Jesus did...but they haven't.
Addressed above.
Addressed above. And if we take that in a literal sense, John is only talking about the book of Revelation.
Peace.
I said
The difference is your looking at it from the carnal mind. I'm looking at it from the spiritual mind. It doesn't sound like you have received the Holy Spirit yet.
John 7:38-39
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Oh just stop it.
The difference is that you made the following claim:
And that claim isn't even close to being remotely true no matter what kind of "mind" you want to say you are looking at it through.
Jesus had the power to Resurrect Himself as He says in John 10. We don't have that power.
The Resurrection is the ultimate proof of who Jesus is. And proof that He can do things that we can't. We can't resurrect ourselves.
Jesus has the power to Resurrect Himself and we don't. (that was thinking carnally minded)
Jesus has the power to Resurrect Himself and we don't. (that was thinking spiritually minded)
Is one of those two wrong?
I mean, in thinking carnally or spiritually should one of those say that "Jesus DIDN'T have to power to Resurrect Himself" or that "we DO have the power to resurrect ourselves"?
If I am wrong in my two ways of thinking above....please explain. You have the Holy Spirit, after all, right?
Forgive me if I am misunderstanding what you are actually trying to say but it sure looks to me like thinking "spiritually minded" has led to a claim that just flat out does not square with reality.
I like those verses too. But they are irrelevant to what we are talking about other than you trying to avoid the discussion.
Peace.
I said
The carnal mind is always subject to deception. But if you look at verse 18 that power that Jesus had was given to Him by God the Father. It had to be given to Him because He didn't have that power originally.
John 10:17-18
17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."
(NKJ)
Just like the apostles had the gift of raising the dead. They didn't have that power until it was given to them by God the Father.
Matt 10:8
8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
(NKJ)
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Hi Squeaky,
Actually it wasn't. Because that isn't what the verse actually says.
It says: "This command I have received from the Father."
It doesn't say that the power to do so was received from the Father.
I think you might be going beyond what is written right there.
Can you please show me where that is written?
Unless you can show me somewhere where that is written I will have to conclude that even though you say that believers aren't supposed to believe things that aren't written, you don't really live that way.
What is actually written in John Chapter 1 is that Jesus is the Word of God and that He made everything.
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."
Since it is logically impossible for Jesus to make Himself.... He is not a created being.
He is God.
And, therefore, He has always had the power to raise Himself from the dead. He never lacked that power and He didn't need the Father to give it to Him.
Notice the word "command".
Oh I agree that the Apostles received that gift from God.
It is sort of interesting that they haven't bothered to raise themselves like Jesus did, though.
I would think that they might do that if they could. Walk through walls, rise into the air, appear randomly,...that'd be pretty cool stuff.
Of course, they can't do that because God didn't give them that power.
But Jesus, as God, has that power.
So He did it.
Jesus is so cool!
Peace.
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