Town Quixote's

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Opps...well, sorry...have a balloon genie.

Also, just caught a Flex Seal commercial where the shill had himself submerged in a truck sealed with the product, talking about how dry he was as the thing descended in a pool. And dry he was...though you can't really credit someone breathing in those fumes.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Okay, a momentary pause for...

TGIF Gazette


Talked with the Pure about an eternal context...
Or perhaps I just don't want to exist, forever.
Didn't say you didn't, only noted that it runs contrary to everything we know about a healthy psychology (the lack of desire for continued existence) absent extraordinary pain in a limited physical sense, in which case the desire is actually for a cessation of that pain. You aren't built for nihilism and it's not a healthy sign. The foundation of your being is wrapped in the survival instinct. When people are okay with upsetting that we tend to institutionalize or medicate them for their own good. :plain:


While, elswhere, a friend of mine asked...
...we could have the National Association for the Advancement of White People (NAAWP). That's not racist right?
It exists already. It's called life as we know it. :plain:


Eeset continued her campaign to pit parental figure against parental figure...
Back on topic.... Did you realize that meshak never bought a lifetime membership? She purchased many many bronze memberships for others. In fact she spent so much money buying memberships for others that Knight elevated her to a lifetime membership. So no one can accuse meshak of trying to "buy exemptions".
Excellent and I never did, in order.

Then Knight, sometime later, gave meshak an infraction for continuing to harangue Trins with multiple threads.
He didn't limit it to mocking Trinitarians. What he actually said was...
...Upon returning meshak was very cautious.
Or, almost as soon as she could post again she posted:

"Protestants don't seem to know that they murdered the trins. It is not just RCC thing. John Calvin is not the only one who killed his enemy. It is just amazing.True Jesus' followers don't kill anyone. Jesus and His disciples did not kill anyone when He was on earth."​

She and I exchanged pm's....She told me that she did not feel "safe" and expected to be banned if she posted anything at all. I thought that was terribly sad. It reminded me of ISIS where you convert or die though I never expressed that to her.
Because comparing a banning following warnings on behavior really is the ISIS way...:rolleyes: Like comparing a neg rep to sexual assault. Not that any rational human being would do that.
...I am not trying to stir up a mess.
Of course you aren't. :rolleyes: Repeatedly.


Shared a bittersweet moment with Stripe...I was the sweet one...
:mock: People who can't answer polls.
I can't respond to that.

:mock:

I don't know...


Over in the tv thread, rainee was saying...
...The film itself is not high grade - try not to scream or curse when you see it. We did and do have trouble making things out - lots of backing up and pausing, sigh. Yet we are still hanging in there even when we've pressed on time and again admitting we had no idea what they just showed us.
So it's like Meshak tv. :eek:


While Word claimed scholars have invalidated part of Matthew, so the question was...
Who are these "scholars"? :idunno:
Bembridge. :plain:


And in another T. Cruz thread someone noted the candidate didn't like how rock and roll responded to 9/11...so as you might expect...
...how did rock respond?
:guitar: Highway to Hell ~ AC/DC :burnlib:
Rock and roll responded to 9/11 way back in 1979, when that song came out? That's amazing.


Then...
"Country music promotes drunkenness and adultery." ~ Adrian Rogers

It really kind of does ...

To the pure all things are pure,
Including hokum?


Anyway, so Granite responds with specifics contrary to Cruz's odd generality and...
:patrol: Pander alert.
You think that's a bear, don't you?


Tomorrow? The dangers of textualizing in the driver's seat and other qualifiers. :eek:
 
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Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
And a slight pause for...

The Sunday Evening Gazette​


Kept up the Cruz conversation with rpchk...
Cruz hasn't been a Senator very long. However, he has done a lot of legal work, presenting cases b4 the Supreme Court and he was Soliticitor General in TX
More impressed by his clerking. That's a real feather and no one that looks at him should come away thinking he's less than a very intelligent fellow with a very particular view of Constitutional law, the occasional rhetorical nonsense aside. Some of which you'll note.

He is someone who sticks to his principles regardless..
So was the unibomber. What the principles are, that's the important part.


Then Cale said...
If you have it you don’t need it. If you need it, you don’t have it. If you have it, you need more of it. If you have more of it, you don’t need less of it. You need it to get it. And you certainly need it to get more of it. But if you don’t already have any of it to begin with, you can’t get any of it to get started, which means you really have no idea how to get it in the first place, do you? You can share it, sure. You can even stockpile it if you like. But you can’t fake it. Wanting it. Needing it. Wishing for it. The point is… if you’ve never had any of it… ever… people just seem to know.
I had it but couldn't use it and now that I need it I can't remember where I put it... :plain:


Took gentle exception to Kdall...
...That Jesus guy came and updated it because the world he lived in was vastly different from the one where the Old Covenant was given to man.

Following Jesus' example, all Christians should look to amend beliefs from 2000 years ago and earlier that now seem outdated and/or bigoted

Jesus didn't preach hate
No, but he did preach absolutes and he didn't confer the role of moral arbiter on men or die so that we could do as we will so long as the doing was accompanied under a banner reading "Love".


And a little more on Cruz...
BTW, what is Ted Cruz's signature legislative achievement? What law has his name on it?
The Bupkis Act?

the only thing worse than a lib is someone who claims not to be one
No, someone who will only credit people who agree with them with honesty is worse.


Then Tam broke my heart...
I give rep all the time.
You, you do? :allsmile:


Talking about rep, Pure said...
I try to do both, rep the person and respond on the thread if I can add something.

I don't like "cheerleaders" on the threads, though. And I won't do that.


And like a grass fire...
Yay, Purex!!!

POTD!!! :first:


Had a word on the word with Meshak...
Paul's teachings hardly mention to be obedient Jesus.
Paul's entire narrative, after that stop on the road to Damascus, is a living example of being obedient to God/Christ.

Why do you think so many main streamers spreading license to sin kind of faith?
No one really does that though. It's just the way you choose to look at it. As silly as suggesting that you had a license to sin before you repented because once you did the sin had no consequence. The only difference is you want to keep at it, as though grace was contingent.


Then rpchk said...
...I'm not saying all Ds are sold out to the devil. Some are just ignorant... ignorant of stuff like sound economic principles.. ignorant about..
Like listening to Louis XVI lecture on responsible government. :plain:


Continued with chrys latest hit and run from the consequence...
you are right
I don't know anna
You say that, but you don't mean it. How do I know?
and
I suspect she doesn't either
You should consider addressing your demonstrated failing here, the empty insult answered by anna more civilly than you deserved....All the talk of big ticket virtue amounts to nothing if underneath it is little evidence of mercy, compassion or love.

You can do better. It's time you made something like a noticable effort.


While back in the rep thread Truster intoned...
If its ever possible I'd like my rep switched off.
I don't think it will make much of a difference. :plain: :eek:

Tomorrow? More gnashing, I begin to answer the anti theist rhetoric of Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens and someone goes away MAD... :eek:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Welcome to a new segment I like to call zoo's impression corner. Or, the most elaborate April Fools joke in TOL history, beginning with this blast from the...past, let's go with past:

Should we not first address the ridicule of faith within the Body?
Less of a cheering section.
:think: Nang?

Can't discuss faith? He's devoted himself to discussing faith. That's what he does. Each of the quotes TH is pasting from WikiQuotes or wherever...
Chrys.

He's just pulling them from some quote site.
Definitely Chrys, though it would have been better with a software reference.

Sam Harris has some interesting quotes about the religious moderate (but I'm sure they don't apply, because of course they don't).
Inferential messenger killing mixed with intentionally strained grammar? Chrys again.

...Maybe if more than a handful of you folks would actually tackle the extremists standing among you instead of the atheists you feel are slighting you, I'd be thinking differently.
This one's easy, Granite.


PureX is just saying things. It's silly. I mean think about it; he's busy typing away about the problems of a writer he's never read. :plain: Seriously. Think about that.

I may have missed a post or two, but I seriously doubt anyone in this thread has read Harris, maybe with the exception of Sela (and that includes TH, who said he did).
This one is good to go for any zealot under the sun with a different idea and that now famous penchant for drive by messenger slaying.

Don't you know you can't criticize Hitler until you've read Mein Kampf cover to cover? And who knows what, "I hate N-bomb" really means unless you've read a Klan manifesto?

It's a mystery. :plain: Next up, the Cub Reporter final for March...or maybe a drive by. :noid:

I kid because I love the guy and this is going to make a great near eternal rib poke when my old friend returns one of these.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Race Report :singer:

Nick did his best but at the wire a surging Truster was simply too determined to overcome and it's our resident ignorathon champion at the wire. Truster by a carefully restitched nose (1) with Nick right behind (12) and a game Musterion taking the third position, just off the lead by two lengths.

March belongs to Truster. :first: Congrats.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The Hump Day Gazette


While in my new thread Answering the Ridicule of Faith...
Religious faith is indeed inherently irrational.
I've heard that battle cry often enough, but I've never seen it sustained by the very thing it purports to defend, which I consider then as an irrational version of faith, upon examination.


Which led Truster to declare...
I don't answer your continual ridicule of the truth and the trust.
You are neither the truth nor trust and you do a better job of ridiculing you anyway.

I just put you on ignore.
So you keep saying. You should create a new thread all about how you aren't going to consider me. :plain:


What I'll mostly be about in the thread is...
“Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever.” Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

The word that unlocks the nonsense of this declaration is found toward the very end. The word is "seems". And here Harris mistakes his personal ignorance for understanding. In this he's much like a man at some distance watching a picnic interrupted by hornets who then declares the party seems to enjoy dancing without music or particular reason and may, in fact, be crazy.


“Theology is ignorance with wings.” Sam Harris

Conclusion without argument is a whiff in sheepskin's clothing.


Elsewhere chrys was busy insulting anna to demonstrate how important it is to love your neighbor...
as my uncle would say
so you [anna] read a book
now you know all about the evils that lurk in the shadows of this world
and there is nothing you can do about it but get out of the gutter you may be walking in
and spend some time with happy people the ones who take care of themselves
the ones who love their children and grandchildren the ones who love their family
and the man who made it all possible
I'd say a man who owns every book in the world on love but never seems to spend much time practicing it really only has the makings of a good fire.


Which brought Stuu out riding an old nag...
...rather than [faith] being subject to rational examination,
A thing you don't attempt.
a test it fails pretty much immediately,
But grade having failed to. :rolleyes:
it should be subject to psychiatric investigation.
Rather, arguing against your biological imperative is more readily and usually the foundation for a course of medication and/or commitment.


And answered my friend Buzz regarding...
...Why do we "Western" Christians place so much weight upon apologetics and rhetorical sparring and attacking the statements of others?
Because the public square is founded on a common language and that's how people with dramatically different notions communicate, alter and defend them.

Especially with people who are just as unwilling to be swayed as we are?
With me it's a combination of a) optimism, even if it's one in a million that one is inestimably valuable to God, b) a great deal of the argument is aimed at those looking on, many of whom might not be settled, may in fact be searching and c) it's important not to concede the objective and rational high ground if you're going to accomplish a or b.

Tomorrow? Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me volley and thunder. :poly:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The Mostly True News: Headlines


Jay Cutler's Autographed Football Receives No Bids at Charity Auction
Doubling early estimates of how much the QB's memorabilia would fetch.



The Cleveland Browns left with a gaping hole at quarterback
Don't you hate it when they misplace an article?


NASA is planning to deflect an asteroid in 2022 — to learn how to protect Earth
Next up? Congress.


Cuba's Fidel Castro makes first public appearance in more than a year
Six more months of communism predicted.


California 'revenge porn' site operator sentenced to 18 years
of seeing how the other half lives.


Alaskans wonder: When will the ice on the river break up?
Another gripping day of news in the northern most state.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
A Late Night Gazette


So Truster said...
Giving out rep feeds pride and pride kills.
Nuthin' again today, huh. :plain:



Differed on points great and wee...
...I'm sorry you don't agree with Scripture.
I'm sorry you won't distinguish between your understanding, a different understanding and the thing itself.

Anyone who is searching is going to be put off by attacks of the Christian Body against all that they are.
Again, I differ. If the address is rooted in the appearance of the rational and from the appearance of conferred authority and lacks any substantive opposition they're going to impact. Not everyone, of course, but not no one either.

...You aren't presenting an absence of contempt but rather just the opposite thereby preventing any reception of the faith.
That wasn't the aim of my line, but on your point, I'm denying the notion of objective truth in the anti theist's foundation. It's important to my mind that we do it and I've set out why. How you read or receive it isn't something I can determine but I don't agree with you. I don't hold those outside of the faith in contempt, which is why I have many friends in those corners. But I hold the truth and a serious examination in high esteem and so should anyone searching for it.

My critique of what is lacking or mistaken in the anti theist's methodology is in defense of that truth and examination.


Differed on the value of lazy assumption instead of particular observation...
I love stereotypes. :jump: Stereotypes help us to understand people groups
I think that's exactly backwards. From hard hearted republicans to bleeding heart democrats, stereotypes are the comfort food of discourse, but they're mostly empty calories.


Then after challenging JF to tell me what he wants...
...It's right there in the original query...an objective, independently-verifiable means. Not sure why that's such a mystery.
That's not a mystery, it's just not a standard. A standard is a thing that when met produces the satisfaction you're asking for. You've described what the standard should conform to, but not what it is. So if you want proof of a thing you need to know what could objectively satisfy. And the problem is that nothing will make the point. You won't find an empirical standard that will manage it.


Then Poly asked...
...What's the last movie you saw? Did you like it?
:think: Noah. No. But I'd read the book. :)


Kept meeting objection to my thread answering anti theism, contextually...
... All you're doing is advertising atheist material and alienating people from faith.
...If a person is alienated from the faith by my meeting and rejecting the foundation of sin and separation I put it to you that there is nothing in this world and only one thing in the next to correct them and I can do neither good nor harm to anyone so situated.


Then Nang decided...
...Years of trying to intellectually persuade the enemies of God, will end up being nothing but a futile exercise, lest God Himself chooses to save some of them from their stubborn unbelief.
So maybe God uses us as part of His process of waking some of the unfaithful. In any event, it's worth a try to me and if it isn't to you don't throw the seed.
Or maybe she just wasn't doing it right.


And...
...Intellectual arguments, or relating of personal "experiences" will not cut it, or bring a single soul to life from death . . .
They will if God uses them to that purpose. Now if you don't mind I'll turn back to the purpose of this thread and wish you well.


There was a thread on an article about people with internet access conflating the access with personal knowledge and faced with that, well...
I'd like to believe that's true but I only read it on the internet. :plain:

Stupid internet.


Tomorrow? The do's and don't's of process and someone gets his reward...maybe a pony. :think:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Tru but Sad: the Internet Follies Gazette Bonus

This FB gem
Say what u want about Lance Armstrong...but being the first man to walk on the moon, is an awesome achievement...they can never take that away from him!

Or from Danya
Danya: what does IDK mean?
Jesse: I don't know.
Danya: ...ugh! no one knows!
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The Thursday Morning Gazette​


Talked definitions and cynicism as an acquired tasted in the "No shoes, No shirt, No homos" thread...
Struck you as a real media savvy individual, did she?
If by media savvy you mean she owns a tv...

:think: Gofundme is pushing half-a-million.
And the "damage" continues. Anybody actually harm anyone on the anti homosexual bandwagon? And the people who make bandwagons have to be raking it in...what? :plain:


Kept deconstructing the anti theist Letter...
...Harris also purports to desire something more and particular, "I have set out to demolish the intellectual and moral pretensions of Christianity in its most committed forms."

Ultimately then, this book isn't so much a letter to us as about us and about us in a number of ways that will, upon examination (some of which I've begun) illuminate a few important points. Among them that Harris is ardently opposed to our existence and that he doesn't really know us very well.

The last bit I'd like to set before you from that introduction I passed over (introductions being the small toe of most narratives) is this from Harris, "Our country now appears, as at no other time in her history, like a lumbering, bellicose, dim-witted giant."

If you believe in the resurrection, if you place your personal faith in the living Christ and his divinity, this is how our enlightened friend sees you...but in point of fact, particular faith in the Christian sense has rarely been weaker or less unified. The "greatest generation" was much more fundamentally in tune with a unified front on the gospel and its role in the public forum. Fortunately, men like Harris may wake that not so dim giant themselves and in their mistaken aim give Christians long insulated by the protections of our compact a greater clarity and unity in our purpose.

I'll be picking up at the earlier stopping point sometime later. :e4e:



Meanwhile Trad was making a traveshamockery of his own sham thread...
...Why do we need two different attorneys (one of whom is basically being paid to ignore the latter fact), a judge and a jury to take these facts into account?
Because they serve as reasoned checks and balances against a greater likelihood of error in enforcing law. Consider, the charges begin with the police then reach a prosecutor and even a grand jury before making their way to indictment and then trial. All along that course is the potential for willful or accidental misconduct and error. All along that course the rights of the accused are at stake.

Would you want the doctor who performed your operation acting as the judge of whether the medical complications that arose from your surgery were the result of malpractice?

Of course you wouldn't. And you don't want the same people who charged you to determine the outcome of the charge. So we have an adversarial system. One side presents the prosecution and we have a second lawyer singularly dedicated to making sure the rights of the accused are protected and that the prosecutor meets his obligations before the law.

Then we have a jury, selected to act as an additional check if the defendant doesn't believe he can or should trust a judge (who is by nature of his office more closely allied with the state that charged him) to hear both the reasons and procedure that led to the moment and the answer of the defense attorney who scrutinized every aspect and element.

Re: comic book justice
...I don't think that any reasonable human being (who is even halfway decent and is not a hardened criminal) can read the comics and not admit that the Judge system is better than anything that's ever been attempted so far in human history.
The more concentrated the power in any system the more likely an unjust outcome and corruption. Ours works. And it works in the overwhelming majority of cases. That's why 98% of cases never make trial and of those that do and are subsequently appealed most remain in the verdict rendered.


Then LH got clever with my comment that most people don't seem to understand Christ had a rock he could have thrown at the adulterous woman...okay, for LH then...
...Except to do so would have been sin on His part. People don't seem to understand that enough.
Probably because not enough people make the case when they say that. And because if it wasn't so then Jesus would have been misleading the crowd when he said that anyone without sin could do it...I mean if it couldn't be done regardless all he would have to have said was that, that it was in violation of the code of law or procedure, etc. and couldn't be done for this or that reason, but that otherwise and following that finer line have a throw.

That sort of thing. But he didn't say that.


Then I took exception to a claim that always seems problematic to me...
Quite often innocent defendants plead guilty to "a lesser charge" because they have far too much to lose by risking going to trial.
...Look, if you lie under oath I don't have any real sympathy for you and less reason to believe you. And that's what pleading to a lesser involves (if you recant to others later). You have to tell a judge you did the thing you're admitting to. You're under oath. So if you tell me "I only did it because..." it's like perjuring yourself but then saying, "Believe me."


And countered the notion that the defense attorney argues against the truth...
Also, Sod was wrong when he said it forces one side to argue against truth. The truth is being determined so when a case is presented it's the process toward that, not an argument against it. The presumption is innocence. The burden beyond a reasonable doubt. The jobs of the lawyers to present the evidence and challenges on it for the determination of a trier of fact.

And no defense attorney may knowingly allow or instruct a client or witness to advance a lie. If he or she does that they're subject to prosecution and disbarment.


Speaking of law and Indiana...and isn't it time someone did?
Does anyone want to actually read SB 101?
I did. Did you read the part where corporations can have religious views? :plain: Should those corporations have to go to church and pay tithes?


And...
So, basically, this law is about giving people the liberty to avoid having to do something they don't want to do based on faith, which happens to includes providing services to homosexuals (or abortionists, Muslims, or the opposite since the law would go both ways and isn't just for Christians) ....
And so it came to pass: ex uno plures. :plain:


Then Truster said (again and for or with no apparent reason)...
''Go from the presence of a foolish man''.....
What about the repetitive one? :think:

...who proves his foolishness and certifies I made the correct decision by posting when he knows he's on ignore. Foolish or fooling? Who cares.....
Because it isn't foolish to comment on a thing you can't read or to project the point you can't get. :eek: And nothing really underlines how much you don't care like rushing to post whenever someone you have on ignore posts.

Pride...it apparently also goes before a summer.


And I don't know what tet was up to in the March Madness thread...madness maybe...
Wisconsin starts 4 white guys

Duke, Kentucky, and Michigan St. all start/started 5 black guys.

:think:
Wisconsin is playing 4 against 5? Well then, somebody on the other team should pretty much be open. :plain:


While Truster found his reward...
There was a guy in a city near my home that died recently. He had been homeless for 44 years and in that time had not washed or groomed himself. I once smelt him from a mile away on the High Street.
Homeless and ungroomed would have been sufficient don't you think?

...He once told me that no church in the city had helped him in any way.
Maybe they were some of the people he said no to. Or maybe he wasn't being honest. Maybe a lot of things.

Whilst we were talking people would often approach and hand him a paper bag. It would contain a pasty or a sausage roll. He didn’t like either and used to be followed around by a few seagulls that lived on a diet of said pastries.
Yeah, amazing people weren't lining up to hand him food to throw away.

He would often ask what was in the bag and then refuse to take it. We often wondered why people didn’t ask him what he wanted before buying?
The smell? Personality? Or maybe something about him just didn't scream "picky" at first blush.

As they were leaving I used to complain that nobody ever gave me any money. They would always look me up and down and declare that I didn’t look as if I needed any.
Way to put the focus back where it belonged though.

In all our conversations and my witnessing of how people reacted to him, and dealt with him, I began to realise that he would be the cause of much shame on judgment day.
Maybe more than you know...by one or two.


Doubling down with...
On a number of occasions we were joined by a very well dressed and very attractive woman...Just before leaving she said to me, ''He's soooo intelligent, he's soooo knowledgable yeeesss she said, he's sooo intelligent''!
I'm not sure to this day if she heard me when I replied, ''If that's intellect I hope I never get it''.
Right, because you're better than him. And better than the people he turned away and the ones who didn't stick it out like you and, oh, just anybody really.


And ending with...
I was having a conversation with a guy about charity and I explained that the scriptures say that true religion is visiting widows and orphans in their distress. Giving money through a third party is a cop out by people who just don't want to get involved, but feel the need to do something for the sake of their conscience.
Right. Which is why you shouldn't give money to fight cancer. That's a cop out. You should get in there and take a whack at curing it yourself. :plain:

...I explained to him why this was and he was really amazed that people would be so selfish as to provide charitable giving just to make themselves feel good. And if someone refused them it was denying them the satisfaction they so craved.
I'm so very sorry you were his conduit of information on the motivation of people, that he might have died having as poor an opinion of people who were as likely simply reaching out and attempting to help someone who appeared to be in need.

Did any of them ever offer you anything?

Tomorrow? Post ratios, boot straps and unjustifiable homicide...
 
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Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Sorry guys. Eeset's doing what she does when she needs to feel empowered by trolling in plain sight.

And now, again:

The Sunday Gazette


So a few people stopped by to say happy birthday and a whole lot of people just stopped by...
Thanks again, everyone...you know what's weird though? The post to view ratio. What were those people up to? :noid:


rpchck was busy with a political football fetish...
oh, so only "intelligent peple" (define that term) should be allowed to live? should be allowed to have an opinion.. how elitist.
It's "elitist" to live a moral life in some places.

and by the way, I have a high IQ and mny college credits to my name, and had a 3.7 gpa in college
English major? :plain:

The poor need two things, immediate help and long term assistance in (for those who can) sustaining themselves through good work with a decent wage.


In the latest police shooting thread, aCW makes a choice...
... this is what concerns me:

A White House task force has recommended a host of changes to the nation’s police policies, and President Obama sent Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. to cities around the country to try to improve police relations with minority neighborhoods..."
That disturbs you more than someone being shot to death from behind? The President and the justice department trying to lower the chances of these sorts of things happening again.

Okay.



And Trad asks...
Do you disagree that blacks enjoy a minority status in the United States?
I wouldn't say they're enjoying it. :plain:


Took another stab at the Baker's Dilemma" with Angel...
If i am creating a specialty item, then i am supporting it.
That I don't see. If I see a Klan rally on television and a couple are taking a break eating Hardee's hamburgers it doesn't occur to me or I suspect anyone that Hardee's is endorsing the Klan. And I'd bet the person behind the counter wasn't endorsing them and neither was the cook. That's why I've noted the distinction between "Abbotts' Bakery Supports This Gay Marriage!" and two grooms atop a cake made by Abbotts Bakery.

Now I suppose you could argue that taking money from sinful activity is offensive to you and not do that...but support isn't there and not even a moral aiding and abetting given the act goes on with or without you and a cake isn't determining anything.

What you could do is post a sign behind your counter reading:

This store believes in the traditional notion of marriage, one instituted by God and answerable to Him, but we will comply with the law of the land and pray for those who use it to violate His.​

There's a witness, an objection and a compliance with Romans all in one.


Then Trad was back with...
I'm just pointing out. If you run from the police, you are at a much higher risk of getting shot by the police.
True enough. And if you're just walking around in the field of fire too.

Therefore, had you gotten gunned down, it would have been your own fault.
That doesn't follow reasonably. If the officer doesn't have the right/authority to use lethal force then it isn't the victim's fault, even though their activity was instrumental in the result.

So I can jaywalk and if I'm hit by a car it's on me, but if a policeman guns me down over it then it's not really.


Spoke to a point raised by zoo on diversity within the Body...
...Interpretation of the Bible, within Christianity let alone outside of it, is completely chaotic.
There is certainly a great deal of disagreement within the Body on any number of issues, but there's an overwhelming agreement on much more in terms of orthodoxy. So dance or don't dance, Saturday or Sunday, obligation or joyful giving, the central, crucial message of the faith is united in the cross and in how we are to be with one another and our neighbor. Outside of the salvific, sure. It's a mine field. But what isn't?


While in the "replace a movie title word with bacon" things were starting to heat up...
Chitty Chitty Bacon Bacon
Because Bacon-Bacon, Bang-Bang sounds like a gastric reaction. :plain:


And of course...
Bacon in the Sun


Tomorrow? I love bacon when it sizzles, backlash liner and more answers on the ridicule of faith. :chew:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Reflections :poly:

"Love is composed of a single soul inhabiting two bodies." Aristotle​

Which is all well and good until they also have to share a bathroom.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The Rainy Day Gazette


Debated SObG in the movie/bacon thread...
The Andromeda Bacon
The Bacon Strain. :eek:


Tried to wrap up a side bar in Answering...
Seems to me that if a Christian really wanted to respond to that which ridicules their faith, they might want to begin with those who profess their faith and then besmirch it with their unChristian behavior.
That's what IMJ and Nang thought too. I don't agree even a little, since that thread (to my mind and I'm not telling you yours) isn't going to change Bo Diddly where a thread taking on the often false and deceptive claims of anti theism might help someone who is in the process of searching for contextual truth. Might even help one in a million who've taken the wrong path on that one.

To me salvation is more important and immediate than family squabbles that aren't going away and anyone who is going to create a rule by anecdote (those judging Christendom by a few mouthy apples) isn't really looking so much for answers as justification.


Had a word or two with GF about the way it is...
...I think the world is no longer Christian in any practical sens and this has consequences on every level.
I don't think the world has ever been a particularly Christian one in any practical sense, but I might have missed it. When was that?

Our is a secular, post-Christian age. Our world stands where Nietzsche indicated. It has become very unpopular to refer to your religious beliefs in the face of issues such as no-fault divorce and same sex marriage.
Mostly because the framing has a way of looking remarkably like a bill.


And wouldn't you believe it...
Blimey! Have you never read Aristotlean metaphysics? :think:
No, but honestly who has? I don't even think Aristotle managed it. :plain:

...I'm Bill and I'll be your law.:wave2:
Would there be a law against two Bill's going through the House together? :shocked:


Then Pure was back with...
...I'd say that how Christians conduct themselves outside the body is a direct reflection of who they are within the body. The sickness within then presents the body as sick, and unholy, to the outside world.
If someone is invested in looking at the world through their emotions and conflating the immediate with a rule there's not much you can do for or with them, but the rest who might consider it would also consider the Psalmists of the world.

Which is exactly what the outside world then uses to disdain and recoil from it.
...As well to confuse Christians with practical saints because you met one or reject marriage because some people abuse the institution.


Continued to differ with Angel and kmo on the baker/conscience/law business...
Your argument about the legal authorities is a bad one,
No, the simplified version you're arguing against would be...I'm not arguing that we have to blindly support Caesar attempting to take what isn't Caesar's, but you haven't made the case that the baker is doing that. You've made the case (or the baker has) that he doesn't like it, which is something else.


When kmo noted...
...But that's not a good analogy, as Angel has already pointed out. If BB&B made special sheets for a Klan rally at their request then it wouldn't be as easy to say they aren't supporting it.
Why not? Do they have a "Go Klan!" sign in the store? Is there a special "Klan Discount"? Or are they simply behaving the way they would if literally anyone came in to place the order?

Because if the answer to that is yes it's a very good analogy on the point (and I suspect that would be the answer).

But there is at least the question of why would someone give practical support and profit from something they are against.
The moment you say support you've made a decision you only just said couldn't reasonably be read in, which is rather my point. You need something more and other to know the corporate attitude and pronounce it.

Just so, absent the baker being made to write its support out in the cake, which no one can make them do, there's nothing signified beyond commerce.



While LH, moved to post outside of a pat response on Christ and the woman to be stoned, well...
You're an idiot. You are completely ignorant of the Law commanded by God as recorded in the Bible. As a former attorney one would think that would give you pause to speak on the matter. Apparently you're too stupid to keep your ignorant mouth shut.
Even if you were dead on right in this particular you'd lose most rational people within a sentence or so. The only people who will ever be impressed by that are those with similar limitations.

The standard given in the Law commanded by God [Jesus is God incarnate] negated Jesus from participating in the execution of the adulteress, at that time. If He had participated He would not have been without sin.
If Christ had wanted the woman to pay for her sin he could have directed them in the law. He had no problem amazing the elders of his day as a boy...He knew of her guilt. But he didn't instruct them. He didn't mention any of what seems so important to you. No variation on the, "You're trying to trick me, make me appear unlettered in the law or heretical and here is where you make your mistake..." and no, "Look, if you want to condemn her follow the law, because I know as you do that she's guilty."

And I think there was a reason for what he both did and didn't say, just as I think there's a reason why you can't have that conversation.

Tomorrow? Sunshine, I hope... :rain:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The TGIF Gazette


Noted bybee, back from the sea with...
Oooooooh! Not me bacon!
Is it just me or did bybee go pirate on us? :think:


Then fool said...
I believe they prefer to be called Bacconeers
I stand corrected...and for women approaching a table where I'm sitting.

Especially if they're armed.

Even if you're at a Diner and it's the Waitress?
Is she armed?

What kind of Diners do you go to?
The kind with at least two clear exits.

An old friend of mine used to say "A nickle will get you a loose cigarette, respect will get you a place to hide a body for a few days."

I should quit smoking.
Everyone feels that way eventually...or quickly if they're on fire, but that's only common sense.

(I feel a POTY coming on) :plain:


While quip queried on faith and geography...
...Wherefore your exclusive faith in the Christian variety?
It's how I was called into faith...

You've a plethora of religions/faiths within this world....why the one corresponding so culturally convenient to your life?
To my surprise when God tapped me on the shoulder the path and person expressed brought me to Christ.

Now if I grew up in a culture that believed the world to be (essentially) spherical and the rest of the world or most thought it flat would you have a problem with my culture or my belief? Or would you simply consider it my good fortune to have been so situated and discussed our mutual obligation to the truth?


Answered aCW's continuing mistaken...
The prosecution rests it's case.
My position on gay marriage is that morally it's a sin and legally there's no justification under the law to prohibit it, any more than there's justification for denying an atheist a license to wed.

Or, give Caesar what is Caesar's (a legal, secular contract with the state) and reserve what is God's (a religious joining before Him) for God.


Continued to do my level best to help Arthur through a difficult thread...
I would just like to say that this is not in fact one of my favourite photos,
Mea culpa. I stand corrected. It was right next to your favorite and I was in too much of a hurry. Consider it fixed with this bit of dramatic license in homage to the great LOTR series' beloved Gandalf:

Spoiler
bdff7dbe174d1799670d30c185822745.jpg


or even one I would have particularly sought out at any given juncture whatsoever no matter what the subject, time or place etc. I'm frankly somewhat miffed at this TH, and I expect due recompense in the form of further character assassination etc etc...
Who knows what any of that means? My best guess is that at some point AB spilled coffee or maybe a juice box on his keyboard and dabbed it up with a napkin before he hit send. :idunno:


Had a few with IMJ...
... They want to live in their doctrines and their own understandings; by their own rules and in the long run, God isn't in the picture anymore at all.
You want them to live by your understanding? Because otherwise and before you say, "No, by His" everyone who loves Christ is trying that. But as it stands we differ on any number of things and I think the differences are honest ones, not ignorant or willfully destructive. The important thing isn't that we agree all the time, but how we differ with one another and what that says about our maturity in faith.

I mostly don't join in the squabbles over doctrines because I don't see any real profit in it.

...That's the only way we will ever get the Sam Harrises of this world to take notice; if we join together in faith and love.
No, Harris would simply tell you that you don't need God to do that. In fact, he does precisely that. What you do to Harris, who is committed to this battle on the side of our common enemy, is demonstrate the clothes he's draped himself with are imaginary and let the crowd that stopped to admire it see the naked truth.


While GF said of no fault divorces...
...It makes it easier to enter such ridiculous unions, knowing one has an easy exit.
I don't doubt it. And allowing the sale of handguns to individuals makes it more likely that someone will get shot. Yet I don't think the sensible answer is to restrict the right to purchase them. Do you?

If this were merely an empirical and legal world, perhaps I'd go along with all. As things stand, however, I cannot.
The law is either rational or it's just another way to tyranny. I prefer the freedom of my own conscience and an exercise of right limited only by my interference with your own.


Meanwhile AB's new "no liquid around the PC" rule was being tested...
he doesn't even know what don quixote is all about
just ask him
and
he will tell you that he already addressed it
Now it's chrys...There seems to be a number of people spilling drinks on their computers. Complete gibberish. Someone get that boy a towel. :think: Or an argument that holds water.


Had a few more on the point or apologetics...
...What makes you think someone like Harris or Savage or anyone like them is going to pay one ounce of attention to you when they won't even give God any credence?
I'm not asking anyone to credit me, only to consider reason. That is the only real virtue the anti theist lays claim to. Addressing it clearly is on par with a Christian arguing scripture with another Christian. It's fundamental.

...That's not our place nor is it what God has asked us to do.
I don't agree, but I think if you think that you shouldn't do it. I've said as much the first few times you mentioned it.

...You're using your word and your reason.
I'm using reason itself. That's a faculty and not a thing to be attributed to anyone.

And I'm using it to demonstrate the twisting of that faculty, to deny high ground and lazy thinking, promoting the hopeful beginning of a more serious questioning by those attempting to stand on it or inquire into the point, by those who value it, even if they're too green to value the root of it [God] just yet.


And I'll close today with a true story...
So my mom is trying to get Jack to do numbers.

She says, "What's after three, Jack?" and "What's after six?"

That sort of thing.

Jack goes along for a bit then eventually stops and asks her, "Don't you know how to count?"

Tomorrow? Failures, Farces and Answers...where distinction between which is which is the ballgame. ;)
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The Sunday Afternoon Gazette​


Had a word with rex on the application of faith...
I think he's spot-on here. Humanist morality tends to focus on the avoidance of suffering and basic "human" rights. Religious morality typically places obedience first. If God says to comfort the suffering, you comfort them, and if he say to kill them, you kill them.
Obedience to Christ will never make any man indifferent to suffering, will instead compel us to move against it.

...but in the best case, that merely matches humanism, and in the worst case, people start reading some of the less humane parts of their Bibles and the result is a lot worse.
There you run off the rails. Humanism is and must be by definition a thing cobbled and assumed. Christianity is at its worst that very thing. At it's best it is something much more, a thing humanism can't be, actual and absolute truth.

I think you can browse any number of threads around here for evidence of this phenomenon.
I don't make rules about agricultural production because I drove through a state experiencing a drought. I doubt you would either.

It is a bit strange though, isn't it, when Christians who vehemently oppose abortion seem completely indifferent to the lives of people who have actually been born?
It would be strange if I considered that a rule. I have no reason to do that and every objective reason to feel otherwise, beginning with the incredible outreach of the Body in clothing, feeding and ministering to the needs of the world.



While chrys continued to take on the important issues...
that is pretty good
you remembered part of my explanation
Mostly it was my recalling that nearly everything reduces to that for you, but I'll take the credit.

but
I can't remember yours
Well, we all have different gifts. Maybe yours is whistling.

will you ever repeat it?
Why would I? It's not like you'd remember it.


Then chrys cleared up what he was after and what he really wasn't after...
look just give us a link or repeat your explanation

you can't do either
Like I've said, even your questions aren't questions.


Speaking of character traits...
...honesty demands I can't think of a fictional character I more closely resemble. Wait ... we are talking about fiction, right?
Around here the characters are mostly frictional. :poly:


Continued to talk about how we advance the flag...
As to the second sort, I tend to have more one-on-one confrontations with CHRISTIANS or church people than I do with any nonbeliever.
I was never confrontational as an atheist, but then I never considered myself an anti-theist.

Several examples of that just on this single thread. Which I think is in part due to so much emphasis put on rhetoric and argument by church leaders.
I suppose it's all in the sort and kind. Too many angry men and too few like Lewis to go around. Contemplative and kind, firm but careful and caring in their approach. That's the apologetics the world could use. It's the sort I would have entertained from outside of the faith.

I find it so much easier to reach out and connect with nonbelievers or agnostics than I do with fellow Christians, precisely because the former don't care about doctrinal minutiae compared to compassion, and so many of the latter care so much about doctrinal minutiae that the completely ignore compassion.
Maybe I'm just lucky. The people I live around, my community of faith isn't without doctrinal leanings, but they tend to center around outreach and the salvific, not heated arguments over predestination or wine instead of juice. Or maybe you're just unlucky. I hope it's the latter.


And in response to Granite's generalization about Christendom...
Uh, yeah. You would.
Right. And I'd dislike a general, stereotypical comment about black people. I've seen too much of what that thinking brings and allows. He had too, which makes it all the more regrettable.

...I know a guy I once watched give the last five dollars he had to his name to someone who needed it more. I've never known him to walk away from a human need he could meet. And he's flawed for all that. I could tell you about those flaws if that's what I was set on seeing and reporting. He wouldn't fight the negatives, the missteps and failings. He'd just put them within the context of the need for grace. There was a time when I would have discounted all that and seen him as exceptional. I don't believe he is. I think he's simply grateful and tries to hit that mark as often as he can.

I know another guy, a lawyer who gave up his practice to run a mission feeding and clothing and caring for the poor. Exceptional or just evidentiary? My brother was one of the youngest VPs in a huge financial institution. He spent his spare time working with Habitat and now, retiring earlier than most people can imagine doing, is knee deep in that and other outreaches at a church that moves to help and be involved...I could do this sort of thing all day.

And twice on Sunday.


It was good to see bybee back about and offering something to build upon...
I find Islam to be dangerous in it's fanaticism.
I find fanaticism in most applications troubling. Or, as I put it somewhere, the zealot speaks for God the adherent speaks of God. I think the distinction is important and the former, within the religious or outside of it, is where the danger lies, the almost inevitable corruption and conflation of impulse that will not brook opposition or difference.


While elsewhere roug was asking...
[how] does a person get banned?
The same way you get to Carnegie Hall, practice. :plain:


Tomorrow? Chrys hears a "What?" the importance of apology and reading is fundamentalist, depending. :poly:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Race Report :singer:

Out of the final turn and into the home stretch and it's a close field in contention for their place in the winner's circle with Stripe having taken the lead (10) he entered the turn sharing with musterion. Barely in contention entering the turn, free has come on to take second only a length behind (9) while a failing must holds on to third for the moment (8). Still in contention are Truster, PJ and GM, two back of the placing pace at (6) with Lon, Angel, TB and AMR hanging on to hope on their heels (5).


Tech Corner:

Chrome users, if you're tired of tabs and haven't given a one page organizer you should consider the latest version of Speed Dial. It's a great way to keep your favorite pages a click away on your starting page, has a fine, customizable look and is easy to add to and, of course, it's free.
 
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