Tongues

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Believers, as living sacrifices, are not sin sacrifices.



The shed blood of animal sacrifices atoned for and forgave sin.



The shed blood of Jesus Christ, died once for all sin forevermore. He has washed us clean forever, without end.

I said
don't forget the IF's.

I Jn 2:4-6
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
(NKJ)

Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
(NKJ)
 

clefty

New member
The actual Greek does not say "certificate of debt". It says the "handwriting of ordinances", the same thing that Paul writes in Eph 2 [the law of commandments] aka the Law of Moses.

handwriting:

G5498
χειρόγραφον
cheirographon
khi-rog'-raf-on
Neuter of a compound of G5495 and G1125; something hand written (“chirograph”), that is, a manuscript (specifically a legal document or bond (figuratively)): - handwriting.

That is what God had Moses write down - all the laws and commandments [ordinances] of the Mosaic Law Covenant [613 commandments per Rabbinical count].


G5495
χείρ
cheir
khire
Perhaps from the base of G5494 in the sense of its congener the base of G5490 (through the idea of hollowness for grasping); the hand (literally or figuratively [power]; especially [by Hebraism] a means or instrument): - hand.


G1125
γράφω
graphō
graf'-o
A primary verb; to “grave”, especially to write; figuratively to describe: - describe, write (-ing, -ten).



Ordinances:

G1378
δόγμα
dogma
dog'-mah
From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.

Deuteronomy 31:24-25

"when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”

God wrote with His finger in stone...then Moses wrote some by his hand...


It's amazing the lawlessness you desire to live in...
 

clefty

New member
Because Jesus died once and for all. There is no need for another sacrifice for sin ever again.

Umm sure...no longer a sacrifice but there is still sin all around...and in us still...pointed out by the Law...and thus the need for our daily sacrifice to have Him live in us to do, live, and love Just AS He did and not do as thou wilt and choose this or that...

And when we fall short He covers the debt...

If there were no longer law you how would we know sin? And what He did for us?

No law= no sin His sacrifice is no big deal and His Grace useless as without Law we accrue no debts...
 

KingdomRose

New member
Actually it promotes the vegetarian lifestyle...eating meat was plan b...

http://www.thenazareneway.com/biblical_ vegetarianism_denis_giron.htm

I stick with...

Thou shalt not kill...let everything that have breath praise the Lord

And in paradise when sin is finally no more...we will be vegetarian again...no killing for meat there...so I am practicing now just in case He lets me in...ha

HalleluYah

Whoa, you are absolutely right!!! Isaiah 11:6-9 clearly shows that in Paradise on this earth the animals will have no fear of humans, and vice versa. "A child shall lead them." Beautiful!
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
You two are missing the point. We do sacrifice. All things they done in the old testament was only a shadow of the true things. We sacrifice self.
FLESH (CRUSIFY)
2 Cor 7:1
1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
James 1:21-24
21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
Luke 9:23-24
23 Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.
24 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
Rom 6:8-10
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
1 Pet 4:19
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
Eph 3:16
16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,
Matt 18:8-9
8 "If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
9 "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
2 Tim 2:3-7
3 You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
5 And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.
6 The hard-working farmer must be first to partake of the crops.
7 Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things.
Rom 6:6-7
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
Heb 5:8-9
8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Eph 6:12
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:11
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
2 Cor 2:11
11 lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.
2 Cor 11:3
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Gal 5:24
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
2 Cor 10:12
12 For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
2 Cor 3:4-6
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God.
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Rom 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
I Jn 2:15-17
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world-- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-- is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Gal 5:16-24
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Matt 5:29-30
29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Matt 22:16
16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.
Rev 2:11
11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."'
(NKJ)
xxx Flesh is your outer person where your emotions(passions) dwell in you. Your inner man is your spirit and soul. Your spirit is the mind of your inner man, and your soul is the body of your inner man where your affections come from. Affections have no desire with them, whether it be joy, sadness, or compassion there is no desire to do anything about them. Your outer person is very strong feelings or emotions that you cant control, you have to give into them. One needs the Holy Spirit(verses) for power over their outer person. All the verses that comes to mind while one is in the meat understanding is for purging their minds of carnality. And crucifying their emotions and feelings that are contrary to any of the verses that comes to their mind.

James 1:4
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
(KJV)

1 Tim 6:7-8
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
(NKJ)

Rom 12:1-3
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
(NKJ)


James 4:7-10
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
(NKJ)

1 Pet 5:9-10
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 15:58
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
(NKJ)


1 Cor 15:30-31
30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour?
31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(NKJ)

1 Tim 6:12-14
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,
(NKJ)

Rom 7:18
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
(NKJ)
 

KingdomRose

New member
He brought all of it...

"And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

"Before Abraham...I am...from the beginning"

Kinda hard to understand Grace without the OT...

How else would we know we have need of it? And received from Him?

As if He didn't bring all the 10 Laws into the new covenant...

His command to pray the Sabbath be kept even after His death resurrection and return to heaven is proof ALL 10 remain...not destroyed as He said He wouldn't...

All still binding...still shadows pointing to better things to come

"Before Abraham existed, I was." That is the proper grammar to use to translate John 8:58. Whoever got the bright idea to compare what he said with Exodus 3:14 didn't know much about the Bible languages.

This is an interesting article on the subject:

http://robertangle.com/ruminations/...ations-that-recognize-jesus-did-not-say-i-am/

You are correct that all of God's laws and principles are wrapped up in the two most important laws (see Matthew 22:37-39). What God feels about things is laid out in the Law (of over 600 laws). If we love Jehovah and our neighbor, we will not steal our neighbor's property or fornicate with his wife or murder somebody, etc.
 

Lilstu

New member
"Before Abraham existed, I was." That is the proper grammar to use to translate John 8:58. Whoever got the bright idea to compare what he said with Exodus 3:14 didn't know much about the Bible languages.

This is an interesting article on the subject:

http://robertangle.com/ruminations/...ations-that-recognize-jesus-did-not-say-i-am/

You are correct that all of God's laws and principles are wrapped up in the two most important laws (see Matthew 22:37-39). What God feels about things is laid out in the Law (of over 600 laws). If we love Jehovah and our neighbor, we will not steal our neighbor's property or fornicate with his wife or murder somebody, etc.

I am...ego eimi ....is sometimes translated as "I am he" or "I am the one"

John 9:9 (New American Standard Bible)
Others were saying, "This is he," still others were saying, "No, but he is like him." He kept saying, "I am the one." [ego eimi] [The man born blind from birth]

So what would John 8:58 look like if "ego eimi" were translated as "I am the one." just as it is at John 9:9?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am the one.
Then Jesus might be saying that he was the Messiah who God chose to create even before Jesus was born, and in fact even before Abraham was born.

John 4:25-26 (New American Standard Bible)
25The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."
26Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He." [am He is ego eimi]

So Jesus is using ego eimi to declare his Messiahship in John 4:26 just as he is in John 8:58

Has anyone ever checked out Exodus 3:14 in a Jewish Bible?
The Chabad Translation has "I will be what I will be"
The Stone Chumash has it "I shall be as I shall be."
Rashi rendered it as "I will be what I will be."
The Pentateuch by Hirsch, has it as "I shall be that which I will be."

The Jewish Bibles translate this phrase with a future tense, while Christian Bibles put it in the present tense. [I am]
Were the Christian translators influenced to create a match with John 8:58 ???
After all, Exodus is part of the Hebrew Scriptures of the Jews. It is really their book. Shouldn't their translation take precedence?

The Christian translators have a different agenda. They want to make the connection that Jesus was claiming to be God at John 8:58 by translating "ego eimi" as "I am" and then translating Exodus 3:14as "I am who I am". I doubt that it was Jesus' intention to declare that he is God at John 8:58. If this was Jesus' intention to say he was God, this was not known by the author of John's gospel.

John 20:31 (New American Standard Bible)
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
The author of John's gospel only claims to have written to prove Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, and not that Jesus is God himself.
 

KingdomRose

New member
I am...ego eimi ....is sometimes translated as "I am he" or "I am the one"

John 9:9 (New American Standard Bible)
Others were saying, "This is he," still others were saying, "No, but he is like him." He kept saying, "I am the one." [ego eimi] [The man born blind from birth]

So what would John 8:58 look like if "ego eimi" were translated as "I am the one." just as it is at John 9:9?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am the one.
Then Jesus might be saying that he was the Messiah who God chose to create even before Jesus was born, and in fact even before Abraham was born.

John 4:25-26 (New American Standard Bible)
25The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."
26Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He." [am He is ego eimi]

So Jesus is using ego eimi to declare his Messiahship in John 4:26 just as he is in John 8:58

Has anyone ever checked out Exodus 3:14 in a Jewish Bible?
The Chabad Translation has "I will be what I will be"
The Stone Chumash has it "I shall be as I shall be."
Rashi rendered it as "I will be what I will be."
The Pentateuch by Hirsch, has it as "I shall be that which I will be."

The Jewish Bibles translate this phrase with a future tense, while Christian Bibles put it in the present tense. [I am]
Were the Christian translators influenced to create a match with John 8:58 ???
After all, Exodus is part of the Hebrew Scriptures of the Jews. It is really their book. Shouldn't their translation take precedence?

The Christian translators have a different agenda. They want to make the connection that Jesus was claiming to be God at John 8:58 by translating "ego eimi" as "I am" and then translating Exodus 3:14as "I am who I am". I doubt that it was Jesus' intention to declare that he is God at John 8:58. If this was Jesus' intention to say he was God, this was not known by the author of John's gospel.

John 20:31 (New American Standard Bible)
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
The author of John's gospel only claims to have written to prove Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, and not that Jesus is God himself.

Yes, that is correct. So if Jesus meant that he was God by saying "ego eimi," then so was the blind man who was cured by Christ. (John 9:9) Thank you for bringing that up. It shows that the translators of John 8:58 were remiss in their work, using very bad grammar, though they didn't use bad grammar just a few verses later at John 9:9, which had the same Greek words!

Jesus is not claiming to be God OR the Messiah, in particular, at John 8:58. He is making the point that he existed before Abraham, therefore he is even SUPERIOR to Abraham, thus taking the wind out of the Pharisees' sails, as they were so boastful about being descendants of Abraham. Jesus is indeed the Messiah, but he wasn't making a statement about WHO he was, but a statement about how long he had been around.

Yes, I have checked out Exodus 3:14 in a Jewish Bible. I have at least 5 of them. I doubt if anyone else here has.

What you say is right on the money. Thank you for your research.
 

Squeaky

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THE I AM DELUSION

Matt 16:13-17
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
John 7:39-43
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 7:51-52
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 8:1-2
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
John 8:12
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:16-18
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:21
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23-24
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28-29
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God.
verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses.
 

Jacob

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The Gift Of Unknown Tongues
xxx In the uppor room the Holy Spirit fell on all of them. They all knew the words of Jesus because they had been following Him for years.
And when the Holy Spirit fell on them He started quoting from what Jesus had said. And each one of them understood what the Holy Spirit was quoting to them. Because He quoted to them in their own language. And they started repeating what the Holy Spirit was giving them. They were all amazed because they were hearing the same thing in their own minds. They were all confused because they didnt have the gift of discernment.
No.
 

Squeaky

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Banned

I said
You can disagree, but you must explain why or we cant have a discussion. We cant trade talents with that kind of answer. You have already blasphemed God's Word with that kind of answer more than once. How long do you think God will put up with that?
 

Jacob

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I said
You can disagree, but you must explain why or we cant have a discussion. We cant trade talents with that kind of answer. You have already blasphemed God's Word with that kind of answer more than once. How long do you think God will put up with that?
What you are saying does not make sense. Please read the scriptures.
 

Squeaky

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Banned

I said
lolo You don't get it. No is not a Christian response or a Jews response. Why ? You cant help anyone with "No". You don't have the spiritual authority for that. Christians are all out there trading talents, to help one another. Your about as helpful umbrella in a tornado. And unless you can walk on water you can still learn things.
 

Jacob

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I said
lolo You don't get it. No is not a Christian response or a Jews response. Why ? You cant help anyone with "No". You don't have the spiritual authority for that. Christians are all out there trading talents, to help one another. Your about as helpful umbrella in a tornado. And unless you can walk on water you can still learn things.
You don't understand Squeaky.

Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

Squeaky

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You don't understand Squeaky.

Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I said
Nobody will understand if all you give is "NO".
 

Squeaky

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Have you read the Law and the Prophets?

I said
Yes. And I had the same choice that you have right now. Are you going to believe Jesus or not?

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)
 

Jacob

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I said
Yes. And I had the same choice that you have right now. Are you going to believe Jesus or not?

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)
Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

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Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I said
Jesus fulfilled the law and taught us how to do it also. OLD TESTAMENT LAW (FULFILLED)(CHANGED)(OLD TESTAMENT-OBSOLETE)

NEW TESTAMENT LAW OF CHRIST(LOVE)

Heb 10:19-21
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
21 and having a High Priest over the house of God,
Heb 7:28
28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
Rom 3:21
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Matt 19:30
30 "But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Matt 5:17
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Heb 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
Rom 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Matt 7:12
12 "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Rom 13:8
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Rom 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:14
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Gal 5:4
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Rom 13:10
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Matt 5:18
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Rom 13:8
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Gal 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)
xxx Jesus fulfilled the old testament law and shows us how to fulfill it to. The old testament law is still in affect on those who have not followed Jesus example. Love is the fulfillment of the old testament. And if one can learn what love is they also can follow Jesus' example by fulfilling the law. Love is to suffer wrongfully but do it willingly. Love is not a feeling or an emotions it is an action. The act of not giving into all the emotions that push one into beleiving and holding on to the law of sin and death(punishment). The old testament is the law of sin and death. The new testament is the law of Christ(love). Fulfill means to bring to an end. The old testament is the idea that everyone has to pay for their wrongs. The new testament in Christ is bear one anothers burdens. Everyone who is not submitting to the law of Christ is still under the old testament law of sin and death.


Rom 7:6
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
(NKJ)
 
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