CherubRam
New member
1 Co 14:39
It is fine to have a foreign speaker, as long as there is a person to translate.
Tongue Speaking
- Thread starter feneluscliff
- Start date
It is fine to have a foreign speaker, as long as there is a person to translate.
CherubRam
New member
It was the Catholics who introduced trinitarianism into scriptures, is that what you are in favor of?
God's Truth
New member
Paul was not instructing the Corinthians on how to properly use fake tongues.
Can you imagine Paul giving instructions for fake tongues? You are being unreasonable.
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Different tongues, different translation process......
Different tongues, different translation process......
See Paul's rules on it,.....it seems in the context to refer to spiritual tongues, but perhaps can refer to known tongues too but that's up for debate. Let each reader decide. A message given in a spiritual tongue would need a translation given in the known tongue of the congregation so all can be edified. This happens in many Pentecostal-charismatic fellowships. There are also times of free worship and praise when people can speak in tongues and there not need to be interpretations...since people's spirits are expressing worship to the Father individually...and in concert as one body. See my previous post.
So the tongues at Pentecost may have been different in some respects than those referred to by Paul in his instructions to the Corinthians.
Different tongues, different translation process......
See Paul's rules on it,.....it seems in the context to refer to spiritual tongues, but perhaps can refer to known tongues too but that's up for debate. Let each reader decide. A message given in a spiritual tongue would need a translation given in the known tongue of the congregation so all can be edified. This happens in many Pentecostal-charismatic fellowships. There are also times of free worship and praise when people can speak in tongues and there not need to be interpretations...since people's spirits are expressing worship to the Father individually...and in concert as one body. See my previous post.
So the tongues at Pentecost may have been different in some respects than those referred to by Paul in his instructions to the Corinthians.
Many people assemble together for instruction, encouragement, and edification. If a speaker's words don't edify then he should keep his words to himself and not be disruptive.
Decorum and respect for God and other people.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Well of course. But understand the situational-context and kinds of communications taking place....with 'known' and 'unknown' tongues. The gift of tongues can include both known human languages and spiritual language communications. Being familiar with Pentecostal-charismatic circles and their customs also helps here. Paul said when he speaks in tongues his spirit prays, and speaks forth mysteries....this to me refers to non-human language, an 'unknown tongue'. This kind of tongue can function privately as a 'prayer language's or as a prophetic message given with an interpretation publically to an assembly.
Follow from here.
For those who understand tongues in this manner....there is nothing wrong with meeting in small prayer/worship gatherings where prayer in tongues are allowed liberally while in deep intercession....since tongues in this context is a language of the Spirit. Spiritual tongues transcend the intellect and move deeper into the Spirit realm. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and later inform the mind intellectually speaking....if they are to be known and communicated on that level.
So, you're not attacking Paul today I see.
Yes, but it is the wrong spirit. Paul said, "For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints."
(1 Corinthians 14:33 ESV)
Speaking words no one understands is not edifying, it is simply confusion.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
No need to attack anyone or thing. How bout we stay on topic?
Critical thinking and questioning Paul and his influence in the development of Christianity is not 'attacking', and my previous research and speculations on Paul still holds unless I find adequate reason to modify my opinion. I speak from personal experience on tongues and share my own insight into the phenomena. Paul being more of a mystical, Gnostic kind of visionary accepted the charismas of the Spirit, so gave instructions concerning their use.
He would be liberal with 'gifts' of the Spirit probably within a more cross-cultural context being an 'estatic' himself (being gentile-friendly)....his whole conversion experience is based on a vision and a voice. There is no indication from Paul's own writing that he ever met the human Jesus, as his own gospel is more about a cosmic God-man redeemer figure....a heavenly 'Christ' (a life-giving spirit). In any case, when exercising spiritual gifts...these out to be done in some orderly fashion, for the optimal edification of those present. Some rules may be modified depending on situational-context, as touched on earlier.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Paul allowed spirits of God to speak, for all can prophesy....so all can be edified. You're assuming a wrong spirit at work based on a presumption. Remember human spirits can speak in a spiritual language. The gift may also operate as it did on the initial outpouring at Pentecost, where human languages were specially spoken and "heard" by some spiritual means, as there are different kinds and operations of tongues.
He gave rules so there was not confusion, showing their rightful use. Therefore the issue at heart here is their rightful use. In private or small groups of believers....these rules can be modified per situational-context.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The type of tongues that manifested at Corinth was not deeper and Paul was not impressed. he tolerated it, as it was apparently an improvement on a certain similar thing that would happen at the Delphi oracle, but not much more. He clearly showed that the real thing (that happened at Pentecost) was to show to Jews that the messianic age and mission was here. Thus the Isaiah quote in I Cor 14. thus there had to be Jews present to see the thing happen , to realize that the messiance age really was here.
themuzicman
Well-known member
Funny how tongues aren't mentioned, here, nor is an end to the signs and wonders.
You are among the most lost on TOL
God's Truth
New member
SIGN is mentioned. Tongues is a sign.
1 Corinthians 14:22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.
themuzicman
Well-known member
And we're supposed to infer across contexts without any basis that this is one of the signs Paul was referring to?
What do YOU mean by HERE, etc.?
CherubRam
New member
[FONT="]Speaking in tongues. [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]
Acts 2:6. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]It is common knowledge that tongues is languages. The miracle was not in the speaking, but in the hearing. Each heard in their own tongue / language.[/FONT][FONT="]
Exodus 4:10
Moses said to the LORD, "O Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue."[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Context is important.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Corinthians 14:21-22
In the Law it is written: “With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Acts 2:4
All of them (The people) were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in {other / different}[tongues / languages] as the Spirit enabled them. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]"Them" is the people. The verse does not say (The Apostles.) They were different peoples speaking in different languages. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Acts 2:11
(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT="]
Acts 2:6. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]It is common knowledge that tongues is languages. The miracle was not in the speaking, but in the hearing. Each heard in their own tongue / language.[/FONT][FONT="]
Exodus 4:10
Moses said to the LORD, "O Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue."[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Context is important.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Corinthians 14:21-22
In the Law it is written: “With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Acts 2:4
All of them (The people) were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in {other / different}[tongues / languages] as the Spirit enabled them. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]"Them" is the people. The verse does not say (The Apostles.) They were different peoples speaking in different languages. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Acts 2:11
(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
God's Truth
New member
Could you please explain more what you mean?
Interplanner
Well-known member
That helps, but the mission to the nations was being launched, or founded. That is why Jews were supposed to see the tongue sign and know that Isaiah (as quoted in I Cor 14) was fulfilled.