toldailytopic: What role do good works play in ones standing with God?

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Oh no... it's Sozo

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Dena said:
I would have to agree. I'm not out to be "saved" from a pretend hell invented by men who love the idea of humans suffering for all eternity. Is this what is meant by "one's standing with God"?
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"For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power"
 
Brother Vinny

Brother Vinny

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Dena said:
And what about those who's outward works speak of God but they do not believe in Jesus?
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Please elaborate on and feel free to list some of these so-called "outward works" that "speak of God." Make sure to eliminate from your list any of these works that might have an ulterior motive at play (e.g., self-aggrandizement, self-preservation through building a legacy, self-continuation through perpetuation of one's family/nation/species, etc.).

The prophet writes that the human heart is deceitful above all things (cf. Jer. 17:9). Any works we may wish to attribute to our knowledge of God could just as easily be chalked up to selfish desire. You could even be deceiving yourself in this, believing you are right with God by your works, all the while serving a god of your own fashioning.

This is why genuine faith is the only thing that pleases Him. It isn't something we can manufacture, because it isn't within our flesh to desire God for who He is (although many desire what's on His table).
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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I am not saved because I do good works. I do good works because they are good. I am saved because He did the work to save me.
 
MaryContrary

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I don't think the idea of God rewarding us for the good works we do is insistent with OSAS. And really, I feel a little ridiculous even having to say that but I think it unfortunately needs to be said.

OSAS simply addresses salvation itself, nothing more. I think folks have a really bad habit of forgetting there are reasons to do good and not to sin that haven't the first thing to do with salvation. In fact, I see folks having trouble understanding this quite a lot around here, as if salvation is the only imaginable reason to do good and refrain from sin. Which just strikes me as...crazy.

Do good works effect our standing with God? I'm not really sure I like the word "standing" there but...yeah, sure. I've no doubt God is more pleased with me when I do good than when I do not. That's one of the main reasons I try to do good in the first place. I want to please Him and not disappoint Him. There are other reasons but that's definitely a big one.

So I'd say, yes. Good works do effect our standing with God. And I'll add the caveat that our standing with God hasn't anything to do with our salvation, but rather Christ's standing with Him determines that, as we are redeemed in Him. ;)
 
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Oh no... it's Sozo

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greatdivide46 said:
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

Yeah, works are important.
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Paul disagrees:

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

"Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."

"What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness"
 
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godrulz

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Persephone66 said:
Wow. You can copy and paste something that really doesn't mean much to me. I'm so impressed.
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Sozo, please type the reference so we can link it for context and benefit (Jn. 3:36 see, it's easy; touch the cursor over it and we can read it).
 
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godrulz

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SaulToPaul said:
There is a great divide between what Paul says and what James says. :D
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Paul is emphasizing faith that justifies, while James is emphasizing practical Christian living subsequent to salvation by grace through faith. Paul taught about works and James does not deny grace/faith (exegete vs proof text; see my thread on Paul vs James from non-MAD view).
 
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godrulz

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Oh no... it's Sozo said:
I'm trying to force you to buy a Bible and read it.
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How many days would it take to read Gen. to Rev. every time you post a verse to find it and read it in context? Why not be courteous for the rest of us and save the google step. The version you use also makes a difference sometimes.
 
Zeke

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Acts 21:20-26, shows what James taught, and expected of his fellow Jews to walk orderly in the mosaic law, and his teaching in context is clearly disclosed in the first verse of his letter James 1:1.

His justification was not about justification with God, it was about being justified to men through their flesh Acts 21:24, a boast of faith Romans 4:2. Galatians 4:21-31 puts those thousands of believing Jews zealous of the law as being doctrinal Ishmaels.

:shocked: The tradistionlist sons of the bondwoman just fell off their pews.

Grace to the sons of the promise, Zeke.
 
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