toldailytopic: What do you think of the public school system?

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 15th, 2011 09:48 AM


toldailytopic: What do you think of the public school system?






Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
IMO, the public schools are necessary to insure that ALL children have an opportunity to get an education.

My preference is private schooling, however, not everyone can afford to send their child/children to private schools.

Homeschooling is a safer alternative though some parents have ulterior motives for utilizing home schooling.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
The public school system in America is more or less fine; the problem is the public.




Caino
 

sky.

BANNED
Banned
I think public school is better than Christian school. At least in public school you can see what is really going on in the world. I don't know much about home schooling but that seems to be just a cheaper way to shelter your kids. I have met many home schooled kids and Christian school kids they don't seem to have a lot of practical life and social skills. Of course there are the exceptions.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
There is no "American Public School System." The power to determine educational standards is reserved to the states. (although the last administration encroached on that power to a larger degree than previous ones)

Data show that American public school systems are, on the average, better than those of most other nations. But there's a lot of variation. Some, like Louisiana's are awful. Others, Like Iowa's or Utah's, are world-class.

But "better than average" is not what America needs. It needs to be at the top.

So what's that going to take?


  • Remove the "one size fits all" idea of education. Different populations have different needs and different solutions.

    Bring technology and collaboration into the process to a much greater degree. In American society, those two elements have become paramount; we need to be preparing students for that society.

    Reward thinking more than consistent answers on worksheets. Teaching has to become more student-centered, and more engaging.

    End reliance on a once-a-year test that rewards memorization rather than understanding. Yes, I know better assessments of achievement are more expensive than just throwing a test in front of students. Sometimes you get no more than you pay for.

    Make teaching an attractive alternative. The supply of saints who don't care about money and working conditions is pretty low right now. There are only so many capable people in the country, and you're competing with every other employer for them.

    Granted, teaching is a hoot, and highly rewarding personally. Still, you lose a lot of great teachers every year. I just lost a collegue like that, who went to work in private industry. He was young, brilliant, and had a wife and kids. He just couldn't afford to teach any more.

    Just a few things we should be doing if we want to keep our lead.



 

The Berean

Well-known member
I think public school is better than Christian school. At least in public school you can see what is really going on in the world. I don't know much about home schooling but that seems to be just a cheaper way to shelter your kids. I have met many home schooled kids and Christian school kids they don't seem to have a lot of practical life and social skills. Of course there are the exceptions.

I usually see the complete opposite. The vast majority of home schooled kids that I know and have met are far more well-adjusted and mature.
 

some other dude

New member
My suburban district's public school system is consistently rated in the top 2% in the country. Less than five miles away is a highschool in a large urban district that is being closed by the state because it consistently ranks in the lowest 2%. I've worked in both. The failing school spends more per student and pays its teachers more.

I'd tell you what the difference is between them, but chuckleheads like barbie would call me a racist.



He hinted at it here:

barbie the racist said:
Some, like Louisiana's are awful. Others, Like Iowa's or Utah's, are world-class.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I think public school is better than Christian school. At least in public school you can see what is really going on in the world. I don't know much about home schooling but that seems to be just a cheaper way to shelter your kids. I have met many home schooled kids and Christian school kids they don't seem to have a lot of practical life and social skills. Of course there are the exceptions.

The whole idea of sending children to a Christian school is to sheltering them some of what does go on in the *real* world.

Can they be sheltered from all the violence, cliches, and sex? No. However, it isn't as rampant in private schools.

Admittedly, I am biased towards privates schools because I not only attended one but also sent my own children to them.
 

ebenz47037

Proverbs 31:10
Silver Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 15th, 2011 09:48 AM


toldailytopic: What do you think of the public school system?


In a way, I agree with Barbarian. But, I only agree with the fact that education falls underneath the responsibilities of the states, not the federal government. That is the only way to explain the discrepancy between bad schools in California and good schools in Illinois and in Indiana (supposedly on both bad and good).

I went to what was considered a bad school in California. That school had a lot of science/math/English competitions and sent loads of kids to them. It was considered a bad school because of the violence that occurred there. I transferred to what was considered a good school in Illinois for my senior year. This school only sent kids to choral competitions. There were 450 students in my graduating class in California (and that was a small school). There were 52 students in my graduating class in Illinois. To me, the smaller size made the Illinois school better. And, it was rural so the kids were mostly farmers' kids and were nicer than the kids in the school I went to in California. That said, all except for my government and economics classes in Illinois were repeats of classes I had taken in California. I took a purely academic course load with only one non-academic elective (choir). But, everything was taught to me in one or more of the previous three years.

Now, skip forward 21 years. My daughter started out school in a Christian school, in California. She knew how to read and write before she started kindergarten. Needless to say, she got bored very easily in kindergarten because she was reading things way below her level. In first grade, we had pretty much the same problem. For second grade, my husband and I tried public school, hoping that they would allow her to learn more at her own pace. Boy! Were we wrong about that or what? It took all of two weeks before her teacher asked me to come in for a conference to tell me that I needed to teach my daughter not to go ahead in her books. I suggested allowing my daughter to go up a grade and the teacher said they couldn't do that because it would make the other kids jealous. So, I suggested allowing my daughter to spend half the day with the third grade class and half the day with the second grade class and then let her go to fourth grade with the third grade class. Once again, the teacher said that they couldn't do that because it would make the other kids jealous. She, then, suggested that I homeschool my daughter. I talked to my husband about it and we decided to do it. We continued until my husband passed away, a year and a half later. Then, we moved from California to Indiana. Because my daughter blamed me for his death (organ donation and the logic of a nine-year-old), I enrolled her in the local public school. I had test results and all my records from California, showing that my daughter had been doing sixth and seventh grade work. Because of her age, they enrolled her in fourth grade. The teacher complained almost daily to me that my daughter would not do her classwork. She told me that my daughter had complained that the work was too easy. I told her that she should give my daughter work so that she would be challenged. She didn't listen to me at all. So, when the semester report cards came out, I was surprised when my daughter had gotten all C's and D's, doing fourth grade work. I talked to the teacher and she told me that my daughter had started telling her, "I don't know how to do it," whenever she didn't want to do the work. So, I decided to go talk to the principal about it. His first comment to me was, "I guess she isn't as smart as you thought she was." I turned around and said, "She's smarter than your teachers if she can fool them into thinking that fourth grade work is too hard for her. I can do a better job teaching her than your school can." And, I pulled her out to homeschool her again. With the exception of one semester, two years later, when I taught Spanish in a Christian school, we homeschooled through the rest of her school years. She finished twelfth grade in June before she was supposed to start her senior year. So, I had her pick her favorite subject (reading and science) and study them until she turned 18 in January. Then, she got a job. She decided that she didn't want to have anymore schooling.

Now, when it comes to socialization, my experience has been much the same as The Berean's. Most students of public schools that I've met (both in California and Indiana) socialize great with their own age group, usually. Most homeschooled students that I've met (from all over the USA) socialize great with any age group. Although people I know who are against homeschooling because of "lack of socialization" complain about the homeschooled children only having contact with people the parents choose, almost every single one of them would comment on my daughter's ability to communicate with anyone easily.

I'm hoping that my daughter realizes how important it is to continue learning throughout her life. But, she's twenty-one years old, now. I cannot tell her what to do anymore. I can only advise her.
 

frostmanj

Subscriber
Communities that value education and demand excellence from their children will outperform communities that do not value education and have low expectations. Simplistic, but true. A school can only do as well as the students will allow them.

You want the schools to improve...work on society first. Stop rewarding unemployed single parents. Punish any dead beat fathers through loss of unemployment benefits or garnishment of their pay checks and loss of their voting rights. Make a High School Diploma or GED a requirement to vote. Only award these diplomas to those who EARN them, not just keep a seat warm in school. Why should uneducated people who bring children into the world that they themselves can't take care of be allowed to influence the government?
 

Sherman

I identify as a Christian
Staff member
Administrator
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Public education is not what it used to be. Parents may feel their kids are receiving 'quality' education when in fact in many cases they are not. Socialization is praised as an advantage of public education. But what are the kids being socialized in? Bullying perhaps or how to get picked upon. He only interacts with his peers and doesn't learn how interact with adults. He may pick up some very bad habits from his peers. My son learned to cuss and to sass people in authority from his peers during the three years he went to public school. He also learned the 'Goth' manner of dress. None of these so called 'social skills' made him marketable in the job market.

In public school these days a kid gets his hand slapped for praying. His exposure to great literature is severely limited. For my son 'literature' was the Harry Potter series. :vomit: My kid was not even taught the basic structure of the English language. A lot of busywork is handed out. I observed this when my son attended public school. He didn't have time to sit down and think. It wasn't this way when I was in school.

Needless to say I don't have a very high opinion of public education.
 

some other dude

New member
Communities that value education and demand excellence from their children will outperform communities that do not value education and have low expectations. Simplistic, but true. A school can only do as well as the students will allow them.

You want the schools to improve...work on society first. Stop rewarding unemployed single parents. Punish any dead beat fathers through loss of unemployment benefits or garnishment of their pay checks and loss of their voting rights. Make a High School Diploma or GED a requirement to vote. Only award these diplomas to those who EARN them, not just keep a seat warm in school. Why should uneducated people who bring children into the world that they themselves can't take care of be allowed to influence the government?




"Make a High School Diploma or GED a requirement to vote."

I like it!
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
One other thing; check the relatively few systems that score higher than we do, and check how many lack a national educational policy implemented from the top, down.

Unconstitutional here. But Louisiana and Mississippi would benefit greatly.

Just saying.
 

Dena

New member
Can they be sheltered from all the violence, cliches, and sex? No. However, it isn't as rampant in private schools.

I attended a private Christian school. We all managed to avoid violence. But sex and drugs? Not so much. The first was apparently pretty rampant but I didn't know until after I graduated. The school is closed now due to tax fraud on the part of the church that ran it.

Personally, I'd like to homeschool my future kids for at least a few years and make a decision from there. We have two really good schools in our area but one requires testing into it and the other requires living in a wealthy area which we could probably not afford.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
My public school in 4th. grade didn't know what to do with me when I transferred there from parochial school because the parochial school was so far ahead of them, so they let me read most of the day. Seriously. I was able to go to the library whenever I wanted. Crazy.

Now, math was something different. New Math was the in thing. That New Math followed me all through school - haunted me like a ghost. I never could catch up in math, and did poorly at it in high school. Many years later, as an adult, I finally conquered Algebra. It's one of my happier accomplishments.

My kids went to public school. If I had to do it all over again, I'd home school through jr. high and then find a good charter high school. Local, in the area. I've gone to enough private schools that were out of neighborhood. That's hard when you're a kid.
 

Newman

New member
If we must have a government, it should restrict itself to being the third party in rights violation disputes, nothing more.

Education has nothing to do with this, therefore it should be handled by the market.

Education is not a right. Forcing all citizens to pay for an education that only some receive is theft.

Even if you could prove that every individual benefits from public education, that still wouldn't make it a legitimate government function. Everybody would benefit from a daily multi-vitamin, but should the government be in charge of distributing/forcing that?

This is all not to mention that the free market (people acting/transacting voluntarily) can and does provide better education with costs that are appropriate to what the consumers demand.
 
Top