:chuckle:
toldailytopic: What do you think about the practice of observing Lent?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
It is unnecessary for anyone who believed that Christ finished paying for sin on the cross. It suggests that His sacrifice was incomplete.
| toldailytopic: What do you think about the practice of observing Lent? |
As with any spiritual discipline, it depends on why you are doing it.
If you are doing it because your church requires it: It means nothing and benefits you not at all.
If you are doing it because you are trying to impress God: It means nothing and benefits you not at all.
If you are doing it because you want to be closer to God: Then you may succeed. Say you give up going to movies. If you sit around wishing you had gone to the movies that's bad. But if you spend the time in prayer and study of the bible, then you just might find that you do find yourself closer to God and His plan for your life. Course, it seems like we might want to do that for more than just 40 days out of the year.
HisServant
New member
Its silly.
During Lent, many of the faithful commit to fasting or giving up certain types of luxuries as a form of penitence.
Christ already paid for all of our sins and believers have already received salvation which is assured.
Pennance is a work to absolve of sin which signifies a belief that Christs sacrifice was incomplete, if you see the above definition and belief, its saying the Church (tm) has to complete salvation through pennance which is saying that Christs work was incomplete.
You asked why i said "incomplete" and i showed how certain requirements and acting as if we can earn salvation through a work says that what Christ did was incomplete.
If we could follow the laws or earn salvation, we wouldnt need Christ at all.
Catholics don't believe they earn salvation.
The preferred term is merit...
According to doing works of pennance in the assistance of salvation like its described, is earning it and suggesting that what Christ did was incomplete.
If you have to do even one thing for salvation in the form of a work, then its no longer grace.
Any work worthy of God is performed by the indwelt Spirit in the believer, our works on our own apart from God are nothing but filthy rags
John 6:28-29
Ephesians 2:8-9
Romans 4:4
Like I said, I would like to see a Catholic's response.
Since i gave their definition of penance do you think you will get a different response and i gave their application (the church assisting in healing and salvation)
no one can assist in salvation, or they are not trusting Christ for it.
Salvation comes through Christ and Christ alone.
My point is that no Catholic will say that they earn salvation or that they aren't trusting Christ for it. I'd like to see how they would respond to the quote about penance continuing the work of Christ. I know there is one.
LKmommy
New member
Not all of us "Catholics" strictly adherence to this or "every update on social issues coming out of Rome"...then again I might be a "freethinking rogue". To some I should be shunned, however I do not recall them being able to take the DBR of Jesus back from me or anyone.
I know, my definition is the "official" one though, and according to that and many Catholics, they actually believe they have to "participate" actively in their own salvation.
Spitfire
New member
What might be another topic, I've never seen Evangelicals actually set any goalposts when they talk about Christ's finished work. What criteria has to be met in order to officially uphold his finished work? Obviously, they believe that it's still meaningful to pray, read the Bible, or witness to others despite that Christ's work is finished.
We Catholics believe that Christ's passion merited an unimaginably tremendous over-abundance of grace, far more than sufficient to atone for all the sins of everyone who has ever lived and ever will live. That is what we understand Christ's finished work to mean: that there is no need for more grace than what Jesus has already merited on our behalf. However, this over-abundance of grace must still be communicated to sinners. If all the grace out there were already fully mobilized on everyone's behalf, why doesn't everyone believe and why isn't everyone saved? We believe that we obtain grace primarily through the sacraments of the church, prayer, and good works done with the genuine desire to please God - including penance.
So, while accepting Jesus as your lord and savior does result in justification initially, we see salvation as an ongoing rather than one-time event. That's why we believe Jesus said what he did about he who perseveres unto the end. Paul would not have said what he did in 1 Corinthians 9:27 if he believed that salvation were a one-time done deal. Romans 6 is another good example of Paul instructing Christians to seek further sanctification by serving God. Ephesians 4:15, anyone?
This is tied into the idea of divine filiation - that justification comes from infused rather than merely imputed righteousness. God does not merely cover up our sins - we are actually transformed by God's grace and, although obviously we can never attain Jesus' own level of personal righteousness, begin to share in God's own nature. The beginning of John 15 in particular mentions this clearly. We don't believe that divine filiation happens instantaneously. After initial justification through belief and baptism, charity and penance, prayer, and the sacraments are necessary to sustain and further complete and perfect the sanctification of each individual over time. There's so much throughout the New Testament that attests to this I don't know where to begin, honestly.
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Autumn Delight
New member
Ok. To each is his own. Whatever works.
There is always the VFW fish fry.
As for the subject;
Romans 4
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.