Clearly wrong isn't an argument, it isn't intended to be. Baptism is so foundational, there should not BE an argument over whether it should be practiced or not!
Go back and read your Bible. Tell me where Christ's clear command to go and baptize is negated for all time.
I do not say "man is responsible for the Bible". But the fact remains the books that we consider canon were chosen by a church council, a council of experts. Do I believe God guided their decision? Certainly, but lets not pretend the Bible dropped out of the sky in its current form.
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"Clearly wrong isn't an argument, it isn't intended to be. Baptism is so foundational, there should not BE an argument over whether it should be practiced or not!Go back and read your Bible. Tell me where Christ's clear command to go and baptize is negated for all time."-Alate_One
Fine. By that "argument", show us the water:
"But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Show us the water:
"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;" 1 Cor. 10:2
Want more?
You are clueless as to the meaning of baptism. It started in the OT-it was an OT concept, and one of the requirements of the law of Moses.
"Go back and read your Bible."-Alate_One
Got me there-shut down closer.
Show us "where Christ's clear command to"
"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." Mt 8:4
Show yourself to a Levitical priest, offer the gift?
Do you...
-tithe approximately 33% of your net worth(not your income-the law demanded 33=% of your net worth)?(or perhaps you send in 33=% of all your net worth to TBN) -selling all you have: Mt. 19:21;Mk. 10:21; Luke 12:33?
-Do you "...love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might...."(Deut 6:5, Mt. 22:37, Mark 12:30)?
Or better yet, do you love me as yourself(Mt. 22:39, Mark 12:31)?
-Keep the Sabbath lately(Exodus 31:15, 35:2; Lev. 19:30)?
-Have you gone to any Gentiles lately(Mt. 10:5,6)?
-Have you obeyed the Lord Jesus Christ's "charge" to "...tell no man that he was the Christ"(Mt. 16:20)? -Condemned anyone recently(Luke 6:37)?
-Ever called someone a fool(Mt. 5:22)?
-Have you brought any gifts to the altar recently(Mt. 5:24)?
-Do you travel to Jerusalem 3 times a year to keep the feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles(Exodus 23:14)?
"Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." Mt. 23:2,3/Galatians 1:4
Do you do Mt. 5:29,30?
Do you follow the Lord Jesus Christ in circumcision(Luke 2:21)? Do you follow Him in going to the synagogue on the Sabbath day(Luke 4:16)?
Have you sold all your possessions? The Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to:
Command given: Mt. 19:21' Mk. 10:21;Luke 12:33,18:22 Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27;Mk. 10:28;Luke 5:11, 18:28; Acts
2:44-45,4:32,34
Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11
Do you have "...all things common...": Acts 2:44, 4:32-34, 3:6
The Lord Jesus Christ taught the law-Mt.-John, at least prior to the d,b,r, was all "law ground."
You, sir, fail to "rightly divide the word of truth(2 Tim. 2:15)". All scripture is written "for our learning"(Romans 15:4), but not for obedience(scripture does distinguish 3 classes-1 Cor. 10:32). You "pick and choose" -everyone does. If you deny this, there is no truth in you.
God COMMANDS us to rightly divide this word of truth, distinguishing the prophetic program from the mystery program(Romans 16:25, Eph. 3:9, Col. 1:26,27....)
Do you offer animal sacrifices? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you tithe over 33%(the tithe was not just 10%) of your assets(the tithe was on all your assets, not just your income) to the Levitical priesthood? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you go to Jerusalem on the feast of Pentecost, Passover, and Tabernacles?(if you are a male, this is a requirement of the Law). The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. How about the 613 commandments of the law(not just 10-there were 613). Do you keep them all? How many have you broken? The list goes on and on.............. Your self-righteousness, as with the Pharisees, comes through loud and clear. Do you follow ALL of the Lord Jesus Christ's teachings? The Law has not convicted you yet if you answer yes.
Repeating:Water baptism was one of the righteous requirements of the law, explaining:
"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him." Mt. 3:15
"And this doesn't describe the horrible persecution of the early church by the Romans? That doesn't sound like apostasy to me, that would be "and many of you will wander away from the true faith". Secondly, what does this have to do with baptism?"--Alate_One
Lovely. You argue...
"Consensus and examination of experts can help you figure out what the most likely correct approach is. The early church councils are a reasonable example of such a group of experts."-Alate_One
I responded:
No, Paul realized that apostasy would soon set in, "before the ink had dried", and he left this graveyard:
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock." Acts 20:29
Know your own "argument." "the horrible persecution of the early church by the Romans? " is not apostasy. Next.
" Certainly, but lets not pretend the Bible dropped out of the sky in its current form."
That's secular humanism-man is responsible for the conveying, and for the subsequent preservation of the word of God. The LORD God created the universe, warms the heart of a mother from the smile of her "little one", saves (formerly) no good, rotten sinners such as myself, raises the dead......and yet He just could not convey His word without man's help......
Priceless.
