toldailytopic: To what detail do you believe God plans out your life?

[MrDeets]

I believe God has a plan for us, or more He has a will. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. But He does not make any of us follow His will. His desire that we willingly choose to follow Him overrides His desire that we follow Him.


Can you answer how knowledge of that which does not exist; in any way, shape or form; can exist?

No. I don't reject open Theism,yet. BUT, how a God that can form the universe by His will alone but unable to do anything? To me, creating the universe is a much bigger task than knowing what next Tuesdays lotto numbers will be. . Ultimately (and I think you'll agree) I don't feel that our minds can comprehend how Gods mind works. We must rely on His Word to reveal to us the truth. That is the process by which I hope to find my answer.

 

[Ted L Glines]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for August 30th, 2011 09:24 AM

toldailytopic: To what detail do you believe God plans out your life?

If God were my personal biographer, my choreographer, the writer of my script, and the director of my play, that would make me a puppet. It would make me the social psychopath: "God made me do it!" It would also make me blameless for bad deeds. Sounds like a lose-lose deal.

 

[Sherman]

I believe that God plan for me what that I would accept Christ as my Savior...But that is His will for every human being. Humans have their own free will and more often then not their choices fall outside what God desires for them. God is not a puppeteer that has strings attached to our lives. Many scriptures have been posted on this forum to that effect. My favorite for illustrating this principle is Isaiah 5:1-7.

Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

This scripture illustrates that God had planned for Israel to do good (bear good grapes) But Israel disappointed Him by bearing evil fruit. Knight gets the credit for discovering this scripture. He was the first one on here to point it out.

 

[Ps82]

I've enjoyed all the posts above ... Griffinsavard, Todah, Bradley, ... actually all of you made such insightful comments.

Like what was quoted from Psalms 139:6
6 ​​Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
​​It is high, I cannot attain it.

I don't know how God knows the future ... but I know he does. He revealed such things to his prophets ... and he also personally gave me 4 specific dreams about my future, which all came true in the order I dreamed them. They were short snippits of events to come, and I actually did not understand the dreams nor did I understand that they were about my future until they each had literally come to pass.

It was not until the last one came true that I finally 'woke up/ had the revelation'that I had experienced a miracle from God. Since then I cannot deny that God is real, alive, and knows what is going on in my life ... and even knows my future.

 

[Lon]

God is not a puppeteer that has strings attached to our lives.

Many scriptures have been posted on this forum to that effect.
My favorite for illustrating this principle is Isaiah 5:1-7.

Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

This scripture illustrates that God had planned for Israel to do good (bear good grapes) But Israel disappointed Him by bearing evil fruit. Knight gets the credit for discovering this scripture. He was the first one on here to point it out.

The word 'expect' is קוה-, it means to collect/gather together, not 'caught unaware or surprised' (a bit of word-study in a Hebrew lexicon would clear this up rather quickly).

1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Think about this a little: If Christ was always the plan, besides the word not meaning 'surprised,' then He already knew way ahead of time what it was really going to take. Christ wasn't plan B.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for August 30th, 2011 09:24 AM

toldailytopic: To what detail do you believe God plans out your life?

We could ask just how much a good husband plans out his wife's life, and how much he does not, in her having freedom to choose for herself, even though they are not without each other in any of their decisions.

Of course if one is still a child then they would know little about that as yet.

LA.

 

[Ps82]

Lon,
I so agree ... the savior of the world was not plan B.

 

[Esquilax]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for August 30th, 2011 09:24 AM

toldailytopic: To what detail do you believe God plans out your life?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

## In absolutely every respect.

 

[Ted L Glines]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for August 30th, 2011 09:24 AM

toldailytopic: To what detail do you believe God plans out your life?

Why would God plan out my life? You were given free will and a few directions about right and wrong, so that you could be your own guide in your life. If God planned your life, like a puppet master, then there would be no free will, nor any need for the Commandments (which we treat like suggestions), nor any need for Jesus. In a world where expediency rules, God is not the planner.

 

[Lighthouse]

Why would God plan out my life? You were given free will and a few directions about right and wrong, so that you could be your own guide in your life. If God planned your life, like a puppet master, then there would be no free will, nor any need for the Commandments (which we treat like suggestions), nor any need for Jesus. In a world where expediency rules, God is not the planner.

Exactly! If we were programmed rules would be pointless, and we don't serve a pointless God.

 

[Ps82]

It's probably easier to discover than we make it. I'm reading a very good book.
Decision Making And The Will Of God, second edition by Garry Friesen.

Hi Sky, Lon, and others

I was reading the OT the other day and remembered when I studied about the covenant the children of Israel made with the LORD.
God designed this covenant as an "IF .... THEN" document.

This fact alone shows us that God knew there would be a reason to have an A and B plan. No matter whether Israel obeyed God and kept their agreement ... or whether they went astray and broke their agreement - God would still be able to use them to glorify himself. This shows us that God does know the future before it happens, but he is still in over-all control anyway.

The way it worked with the covenant was that when they obeyed they were blessed and it glorified God in the eyes of the gentiles that he is the true and only living God. If they disobeyed and went astray then they were corrected and God got the glory in the eyes of men as being the One living personal God of Israel.

Within all of this men had freewill to chose their path.

 

[mmstroud]

Most people are down-right offended when I tell them what I actually believe about this subject...

I have to struggle against a brand of determinism. I'm not in the least concerned about the idea of man's 'free will', nor do I think that without it there can be no such thing as a true love relationship between man and God.

Now before anyone freaks out, I realize that every day I make thousands of decisions and Scripture is clear that I am responsible and accountable for every single one of them. I just have no problem with the concept that God has planned every single movement, breath, decision, etc. that I make or take.

I guess it comes from my view of contingency. God is in no way contingent upon man. Man is in every way contingent upon God. I know that doesn't demand my view, but it's probably where my thought process starts...

 

[Ps82]

Most people are down-right offended when I tell them what I actually believe about this subject...

I have to struggle against a brand of determinism. I'm not in the least concerned about the idea of man's 'free will', nor do I think that without it there can be no such thing as a true love relationship between man and God.

Now before anyone freaks out, I realize that every day I make thousands of decisions and Scripture is clear that I am responsible and accountable for every single one of them. I just have no problem with the concept that God has planned every single movement, breath, decision, etc. that I make or take.

I guess it comes from my view of contingency. God is in no way contingent upon man. Man is in every way contingent upon God. I know that doesn't demand my view, but it's probably where my thought process starts...

Hi mmstroud,
Sometimes people think I have unusual ideas, and I, as you,feel confident enough in my views to not worry about what everyone else thinks.

I do agree with you that man is contingent upon God in every way. My next breath comes because he allows it... but I also think that by that same token (by his permission) he can also allow me to make a choice. I've heard the term permissive will used, and I like that concept.

I tend to believe that God knows the beginning and the end of all things that I will ever do or experience, and I also believe that he can KNOW all of this, but it still does not preclude his ability to allow us choices as well. His knowing all does not equate to an unbending orchestration of everything an individual might do.

I have reasons for thinking these things. One has to do with my receiving a word of knowledge from God / a warning / but then being unable to do anything about the outcome ... due to the fact that there were other people involved which by their freewill limited my ability to control the outcome.

I also have found an instance in scripture, which I believes shows how God's will gets accomplished while he is simultaneously able to allow freewill choice to co-exist. It is found in Genesis 18 and 19 where the three super-natural (angelic) men meet with Abraham and then go into Sodom on God's business. They had an agenda from God ... and yet they were allowed to change those plans by a combination of their own will and God's permissive will.

The two angelic men, who went ahead of the LORD speaking with Abraham, were suppose to go into Sodom and Gomorrah and stay in the streets all night looking around to check things out. They explained this clearly to Lot; however, the two of them decided to go home with Lot instead. Well, God's will was still accomplished even though they exercised their free fill, but God was able to even allow his personal messengers to exhibit free will.

 

[ICameBack]

The proper question should be, is my every action glorifying to the Holy One who abides within me? It should not really matter much to believers if they are freely acting on their own, but it should matter to believers much more whether they are acting and living their daily lives in accordance to the will and good pleasure of God.

"Therefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be holy for I am holy.'" I Peter 1:13-16

Nang

Thank you for getting to the crux of it.

Proverbs 3:5-8

 

[Lon]

Hi Psalm,

Hi Sky, Lon, and others
This shows us that God does know the future before it happens, but he is still in control anyway.

Is this how you meant to write this? I agree so am not seeing disagreement here.

The way it worked with the covenant was that when they obeyed they were blessed and it glorified God in the eyes of the gentiles that he is the true and only living God. If they disobeyed and went astray then they were corrected and God got the glory in the eyes of men as being the One living personal God of Israel.

Within all of this men had freewill to chose their path.

I have no problem with this either. I specifically believe we have a will and that God knows before we make a choice what we will (have) chosen and also that He will make choices for us (like Hebrews 12, He intervenes in discipline with those He loves).

It is somewhat similar to the way we intervene with our children as parents: They make decisions and are responsible for them, yet we make overarching decisions for them that steer their decisions as well as negate them at times.

So, in my estimation, they have a will that is somewhat free within parameters but that it isn't always a constant/unchanging freedom.

 

[Ps82]

Hi Psalm,

Is this how you meant to write this? I agree so am not seeing disagreement here.


I have no problem with this either. I specifically believe we have a will and that God knows before we make a choice what we will (have) chosen and also that He will make choices for us (like Hebrews 12, He intervenes in discipline with those He loves).

It is somewhat similar to the way we intervene with our children as parents: They make decisions and are responsible for them, yet we make overarching decisions for them that steer their decisions as well as negate them at times.

So, in my estimation, they have a will that is somewhat free within parameters but that it isn't always a constant/unchanging freedom.

We seem to agree.

Within this passage you had a question about what I had meant by a particular sentence.
I had written:
This fact alone shows us that God knew there would be a reason to have an A and B plan. No matter whether Israel obeyed God and kept their agreement ... or whether they went astray and broke their agreement - God would still be able to use them to glorify himself. This shows us that God does know the future before it happens, but he is still in control anyway.

I meant that God knew they would exercise freewill and would go astray even after they had made their covenant with Him ... but no matter what men are able to choose with their freewill, God has a way of remaining in control anyway.

In a later post I also said this, and it still expresses my thinking pretty well.
I tend to believe that God knows the beginning and the end of all things that I will ever do or experience, and I also believe that he can KNOW all of this, but it still does not preclude his ability to allow us choices as well. His knowing all does not equate to an unbending orchestration of everything an individual might do.