toldailytopic: Penance and church confessional for the absolution of sins, is that s

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 3rd, 2011 09:20 AM

toldailytopic: Penance and church confessional for the absolution of sins, is that something a Christian should do?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

 

[elohiym]

No. It's a license to sin, and partly why some clergy engage in sexual immorality.

 

[zippy2006]

Christianity and forgiveness of sin go hand in hand. The power to bind and loose was given to the Church. Therefore it should come as no surprise that Christians throughout all ages did and do such a thing. The question should parallel that which is directed at the atheist: do you want your sins forgiven? We answer with pride or yes. :idunno:

From here:

G. K. Chesterton (1874-1936) was an English author. He was one of the most well-known and beloved writers of his time. He was also a convert to the Catholic faith. When asked why he became a Catholic, he replied (in Autobiography), "To get rid of my sins."

I think the fact that Christ put such a power in man's hands fits perfectly with the idea that we are our brother's keeper, and also that the forgiveness of God is mysteriously related to the forgiveness of men. Christianity is not about an individual and God, it is about a community of salvifically entangled believers, much like Israel of old.

:e4e:

 

[coulter4president]

No. It's a license to sin, and partly why some clergy engage in sexual immorality.

that is so bizarre, i actually LAUGHED...

i am wondering if an intelligent response is not an absolute waste of time.. considering...

 

[coulter4president]

No. It's a license to sin, and partly why some clergy engage in sexual immorality.

i will say this, though... for the sake of anyone other than yourself who may read it... (some ppl are more open minded than others...)

there are more cases of pedophilia in the nonCatholic Churches..

in fact the rate there is TWICE as high.. have heard this from numerous sources... all reliable, since i dont read trash... dont watch TV... which is redundant, i know... the reason we dont hear about such things is becaause the media HATES the Catholic Church... shocker, i know... ​

 

[coulter4president]

not all priests are good at confession ... i have met SO many who are NOT... i could tell some interesting stories... yikes!:grave:

but one time i went to confession after commiting a sin of... impurity w/ self... something i have not done since... hmmm... now that i think of it... but anyway.. (this was YEARS ago..)

i was eaten up with the most ungodly feelings ... which i remember like it was yesterday.. the worst of which was that i had lost my closeness to Jesus .. and the Father AND The Holy Ghost.... (this is the reason i will NEVER commit this sin again... despite my body's insistance that i cave in... which happens sometimes:kookoo. anyway, i drove a long way to get to a priest i thought i could trust (interesting story there also...). I confessed this sin. to back up, one time years b4 THIS incident, i had confessed the same sin to some other priest. He said (not sure he meant it like it sounds but) "Is that all?" so i got the feeling he didn't take this sin all that seriously even tho the Church teaches (and i know from experience that ) it is a mortal sin. so anyway, it was good to get a priest who didn't have that attitude. He listened and wasvery compassionate but did not act like it was a small matter. I mean, his response was as perfect as things get in this world. When i left the confessional, i left the Church and walked out into a beautiful spring day, such as i had not been able to appreciate a few minutes b4 due to my guilt... due to separation from the Lord throug this sin. But after the confession, i felt VERY close to God.. sometimes the feeling of being separated from Him can seem like an eternal thing... But i was so thankful that that closelness was back again...
it last 4 some time.. Of course, the consequences of my sin did not go away entirely and i had to do a lot of praying and other things to EXPIATE the sin that had just been forgiven me.. But ... again, i remember this day like it was yesterday and the experience right after confession was one of the times i felt the most close to God in all my life..

of all the things i am thankful for in life, i am most thankful for being Roman Catholic

 

[coulter4president]

Christianity and forgiveness of sin go hand in hand. The power to bind and loose was given to the Church. Therefore it should come as no surprise that Christians throughout all ages did and do such a thing. The question should parallel that which is directed at the atheist: do you want your sins forgiven? We answer with pride or yes. :idunno:

From here:

G. K. Chesterton (1874-1936) was an English author. He was one of the most well-known and beloved writers of his time. He was also a convert to the Catholic faith. When asked why he became a Catholic, he replied (in Autobiography), "To get rid of my sins."

I think the fact that Christ put such a power in man's hands fits perfectly with the idea that we are our brother's keeper, and also that the forgiveness of God is mysteriously related to the forgiveness of men. Christianity is not about an individual and God, it is about a community of salvifically entangled believers, much like Israel of old.

:e4e:

tahnk you for all this.. thanks for the quote from Chesterton.. dont know much about him, didnt know he was a convert.. much less the reason WHY...

get rid of sins...

lovely thought...

 

[coulter4president]

maybe some dont have the same thought as Chesterton becasue...

they think they dont have any sin to be rid of ???

or that JEsus just washes them away... 2000 years ago...

dont have to go to Jesus... much less spend time with Him, much less...

but nevertheless sins just dont matter... in the eyes of those who hold to OSAS...

weird... very unbiblical belief... heresy

 

[elohiym]

there are more cases of pedophilia in the nonCatholic Churches..

What I said applies to all denominations that teach repenting over and over for sins. It's not unique to Catholics, other than perhaps the way they implement penance. For all who do it, it's a license to continue sinning, and it's a dead end (Heb 10:26-29).

 

[chickenman]

Christianity and forgiveness of sin go hand in hand. The power to bind and loose was given to the Church. Therefore it should come as no surprise that Christians throughout all ages did and do such a thing. The question should parallel that which is directed at the atheist: do you want your sins forgiven? We answer with pride or yes. :idunno:

From here:

G. K. Chesterton (1874-1936) was an English author. He was one of the most well-known and beloved writers of his time. He was also a convert to the Catholic faith. When asked why he became a Catholic, he replied (in Autobiography), "To get rid of my sins."

I think the fact that Christ put such a power in man's hands fits perfectly with the idea that we are our brother's keeper, and also that the forgiveness of God is mysteriously related to the forgiveness of men. Christianity is not about an individual and God, it is about a community of salvifically entangled believers, much like Israel of old.

:e4e:

Hi, Zippy.
The authority to bind and loose was given first to Peter...

And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt. 16:18-29​

...and then to the chosen apostles collectively.

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt. 18:18​

This was because the Twelve needed the authority to act on Jesus' behalf when He would ascend to heaven to prepare the place that He would later deliver to them on earth at His return. So He gave them authority to act in His absence with the very authority of both Himself and the Father.

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anthing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matt. 18:19-20​

He even gave them the authority to remit or retain sins.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:22-23​

This was authority given to the chosen apostles to act on Christ's behalf while He wasn't physically there. Makes sense, since they would be judges in His kingdom.

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matt. 19:18​

All this has nothing to do with the Catholic priesthood. They have no power to bind or loose, to remit or retain sins. When we believe in Christ's finished work on the cross and in His resurrection, then our sins are forever forgiven.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses... Col. 2:13​

How can any man (like a Catholic priest) absolve another man's sins, when Christ has already taken care of that?

Randy

 

[elohiym]

they think they dont have any sin to be rid of ???

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Buzzword]

Meh. To each his/her own.

I've heard stories of individuals choosing a penitent action (what they actually did depended on their personality) and growing closer to God and more humble as a result.

There can definitely be positive effects from verbalizing the actions for which the Spirit convicts you, especially if you have denial issues.

But then, that can be found in speaking with ANYONE who cares about you, not just a priest.

God alone forgives, since He is the sole offended party when we sin.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Hi, Zippy.
The authority to bind and loose was given first to Peter...

And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt. 16:18-29​

...and then to the chosen apostles collectively.

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt. 18:18​

This was because the Twelve needed the authority to act on Jesus' behalf when He would ascend to heaven to prepare the place that He would later deliver to them on earth at His return. So He gave them authority to act in His absence with the very authority of both Himself and the Father.

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anthing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matt. 18:19-20​

He even gave them the authority to remit or retain sins.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:22-23​

This was authority given to the chosen apostles to act on Christ's behalf while He wasn't physically there. Makes sense, since they would be judges in His kingdom.

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matt. 19:18​

All this has nothing to do with the Catholic priesthood. They have no power to bind or loose, to remit or retain sins. When we believe in Christ's finished work on the cross and in His resurrection, then our sins are forever forgiven.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses... Col. 2:13​

How can any man (like a Catholic priest) absolve another man's sins, when Christ has already taken care of that?

Randy

POTD :first:

 

[elohiym]

but nevertheless sins just dont matter... in the eyes of those who hold to OSAS...

Not true. I hold to OSAS.

Before I was converted I realized that when God tells you to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye to stop sinning else suffer hellfire, I ought to find the Way to cease from sin completely.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

So why haven't you plucked your eyes out yet? :idunno:

 

[zippy2006]

Hi, Zippy.
The authority to bind and loose was given first to Peter...

And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt. 16:18-29​

...and then to the chosen apostles collectively.

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt. 18:18​

This was because the Twelve needed the authority to act on Jesus' behalf when He would ascend to heaven to prepare the place that He would later deliver to them on earth at His return. So He gave them authority to act in His absence with the very authority of both Himself and the Father.

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anthing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matt. 18:19-20​

He even gave them the authority to remit or retain sins.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:22-23​

This was authority given to the chosen apostles to act on Christ's behalf while He wasn't physically there. Makes sense, since they would be judges in His kingdom.

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matt. 19:18​

Yes :up:

All this has nothing to do with the Catholic priesthood. They have no power to bind or loose, to remit or retain sins.

No :down:

When we believe in Christ's finished work on the cross and in His resurrection, then our sins are forever forgiven.

Then why even give the Apostles that power? :idunno:

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses... Col. 2:13​

Your view here is no doubt deeply entrenched in MAD, right? You believe that the power that the Apostles were given was only necessary for that short dispensation.

How can any man (like a Catholic priest) absolve another man's sins, when Christ has already taken care of that?

Ask Christ, for you admit that he said precisely that. This power has been passed down from the Apostles to the successor of Peter and the Catholic priesthood. There is no doubt that the Apostles passed this power on to their successors. We have only to ask whether that Church continues to exist today or whether the powers of evil prevailed against it. :idunno:

Randy

-zip :e4e:

 

[elohiym]

So why didn't Jesus just say, go confess to a priest instead of "you should pluck out your eye?"

 

[zippy2006]

So why didn't Jesus just say, go confess to a priest instead of "you should pluck out your eye?"

Forgiveness (of any form) does not negate the wrongness of the sin or, for that matter, necessarily remove punishment.

 

[elohiym]

Forgiveness (of any form) does not negate the wrongness of the sin or, for that matter, necessarily remove punishment.

My point is this: Jesus implied it was so important to cease from sin that one would be better to pluck out his eyes or cut off his hand rather than perish in hellfire for continuing in sin. In contrast, your denomination teaches/implies that one can never completely cease from sin and that confessional covers it.

Why did Jesus tell them to pluck out their eyes? He could have said, "just confess your sins to "special" men, and you'll be alright."

 

[zippy2006]

My point is this: Jesus implied it was so important to cease from sin that one would be better to pluck out his eyes or cut off his hand rather than perish in hellfire for continuing in sin. In contrast, your denomination teaches/implies that one can never completely cease from sin and that confessional covers it.

Why did Jesus tell them to pluck out their eyes? He could have said, "just confess your sins to "special" men, and you'll be alright."

He told them to pluck out their eyes because sin is bad. Forgiveness doesn't mean that sin is not bad, whether it comes from God through a Catholic priest or directly from God.

 

[elohiym]

He told them to pluck out their eyes because sin is bad.

Rather, he told them to cease from sin, even if they have to cut off a body part, because if they don't they will perish in hellfire.

Do you agree?