toldailytopic: Oprah Winfrey: trustworthy talk show host, or lunatic liberal?

[elohiym]

Christianity does glorify barbarism.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

lain:

 

[allsmiles]

An example of Eckhart Tolle's incoherency....

Pain Bodies

Allsmiles calls that coherent. :chuckle:

I never said he wasn't a nut El, I understand your non-point but give it up already.

At the same time he implies that this is incoherent...

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The idea that it would take a divine being of immeasurable intelligence to impart such a ubiquitous ethical maxim is absurd. I obviously don't have a problem with wisdom sayings, I have a problem with Jesus being his own father which is an example I've used before in this thread. Stick to quoting my actual words, not some nonsense you've imagined. It's dishonest and I can't take you seriously because of it, although I would like to.

 

[allsmiles]

I'm still confused.

Maybe you could post some of what you know about Tolle's teachings? I never have a problem with you as a thread participant

 

[MaryContrary]

She wouldn't trade a decade of her life with you either Mary.

Uh...I've no doubt. Nor would you, else you'd have accepted Christ already. No surprise, dude. :squint:

There's no way to know if she's lying or not.

I don't mean to imply she's lying. I don't even get how you get that from what I said. I mean to say she is a lie and that what you find so awesome about her is a lie. Specifically that all those wonderful things she does amount to a hill of beans without God. You know, that lie.

I have no particular beliefs, I have nothing to lose.

Quite obviously your particular belief is that Christianity is horrid and anything in opposition to that is automatically wonderful and worthy of praise. I don't know how you missed that.

I can't get defensive, but you can and you are.

:squint:

You don't fool me with your coy posts in which you talk about me as if I'm not in the discussion. I've been driving this thread lady.

:squint: again.

I feel like I'm talking to a teen aged girl. This is frustrating.

You're acting like an idiot. Don't expect me to take you seriously when you're being an idiot. :mmph:

Dude, in case you've missed it (and apparently you somehow have) you've gone off the rails a little bit. So I will point out to you that you've gone off the rails and that your going off the rails should suggest something important to you about yourself. Then laugh at you until you sober up and develop some rationality again.

 

[elohiym]

elohiym, can you explain to me why Tolle's teachings are bad?

I just posted a video of him teaching. Can you see what's wrong with what he's teaching?

All I got from his books was to let go of the conflict in my mind and let God direct me...

I got the same message from the book of Romans, written nearly 2000 years before Tolle's was soiling his diapers, based on scriptures much older than 2000 years, and it didn't cost me a dime to read it.

False Christs like Tolle's mix truth with lies to make money. The problem isn't the truth, it's the lies.

 

[MaryContrary]

Christianity does glorify barbarism. I understand that you find my characterization distasteful. You haven't lifted a finger to show how I've been wrong about anything, so why dontcha get to it or get off my back?



Why don't you actually point out what I've said that is so egregiously out of touch with reality? I take the time to be thorough with you people and I try not to leave too much up to your imaginations. I don't have a hard time being honest about what I think around these parts, why don't you return the courtesy? I don't care that you don't like me, but if I'm wrong, show me. I want to know so I can correct the error of my ways. I mean it.

Bull. No you don't. Else you'd never have been so remarkably stupid as to say and then defend this ridiculous "glorifies human sacrifice/brutal barbarism" argument of yours. It's a completely stupid thing to say and you know it. Yet you not only say it, you defend it. You might as well go ahead and stick your fingers in your ears and Lalalala for the rest of thread. It wouldn't be any less childish and thoughtless that this.

I'm sorry if I'm speaking a tad rough here but I think you're too smart to be behaving this stupidly.

 

[Thunder's Muse]

Maybe you could post some of what you know about Tolle's teachings? I never have a problem with you as a thread participant

Oh, thanks allsmiles

OK, from what I have read, Tolle speaks about how we go through life, almost unconsciously, focused on conflict, anger etc. We are fighting with everything around us. The idea is to let go of all that stuff, which is just fighting ourselves and allow ourselves to focus on God...non-dualism stuff.

The pain body he speaks of, is that part of ourselves that is separate from God and thrives on the conflict, anger etc.

 

[allsmiles]

Uh...I've no doubt. Nor would you, else you'd have accepted Christ already. No surprise, dude. :squint:

You're like a chatty-cathy doll that spouts trite little one liners.

I don't mean to imply she's lying. I don't even get how you get that from what I said. I mean to say she is a lie and that what you find so awesome about her is a lie. Specifically that all those wonderful things she does amount to a hill of beans without God. You know, that lie.

There's no way to know if any of that is correct. I know of no lie that you're speaking of. It is impossible for you to discuss this rationally and like an adult. There are a plethora of reasons to believe that Oprah is intelligent and leading people in the right direction. There exists no demonstrable reason whatsoever to accept your beliefs over hers and to accept the belief that she is a lie, whatever that means. There's no way to measure if you're right but we have Oprah right here in front of us.

Quite obviously your particular belief is that Christianity is horrid and anything in opposition to that is automatically wonderful and worthy of praise. I don't know how you missed that.

That's not what I think at all. That's a lie, you are a liar.

:squint:

:squint: again.

You're acting like an idiot. Don't expect me to take you seriously when you're being an idiot. :mmph:

You haven't lifted a finger to demonstrate how I've been wrong about anything. As far as I'm concerned you're throwing a temper tantrum. Go on, respond and deny it. Tell me that you're not throwing a temper tantrum.

Dude, in case you've missed it (and apparently you somehow have) you've gone off the rails a little bit. So I will point out to you that you've gone off the rails and that your going off the rails should suggest something important to you about yourself. Then laugh at you until you sober up and develop some rationality again.

You keep talking about your full house but you won't show me your cards. If this were a poker game I'd be throwing you out onto the street by the seat of your pants and tossin' your hat out after you. You have done nothing to demonstrate the error of my ways. Aren't you supposed to be smart?

 

[elohiym]

I never said he wasn't a nut El, I understand your non-point but give it up already.

Then do you concede my underlying point that Oprah is a nut? :think:

The idea that it would take a divine being of immeasurable intelligence to impart such a ubiquitous ethical maxim is absurd.

It's only absurd because you are ignorant of the culture he lived in. Still, it is a coherent teaching that Christians believe, and it clearly does not glorify barbarism as you allege Christianity does.

...I have a problem with Jesus being his own father which is an example I've used before in this thread. Stick to quoting my actual words, not some nonsense you've imagined.

You have claimed the teaching that Oprah believe are coherent. That has been proven false.

You have claimed that Christianity glorifies barbarism. That has been proven false.

Jesus doesn't claim that he is his Father, but that he is one with his Father, which is perfectly coherent to me, but beyond your comprehension at this time.

 

[allsmiles]

Oh, thanks allsmiles

OK, from what I have read, Tolle speaks about how we go through life, almost unconsciously, focused on conflict, anger etc. We are fighting with everything around us. The idea is to let go of all that stuff, which is just fighting ourselves and allow ourselves to focus on God...non-dualism stuff.

The pain body he speaks of, is that part of ourselves that is separate from God and thrives on the conflict, anger etc.

Makes sense to me

If you have more that you'd like to share I'd like to read it.

 

[elohiym]

Makes sense to me

Do you think it's nuts? Do you think Thunders Muse is nuts for believing that? :think:

 

[Thunder's Muse]

Do you think it's nuts? Do you think Thunders Muse is nuts for believing that? :think:

I knew I was nuts a loooong time ago!

 

[allsmiles]

Then do you concede my underlying point that Oprah is a nut? :think:

Yes and less nutty than you. Her beliefs seem to work for her and for millions of others. They seem benign with absolutely no hint of villainy or bad consequences. The spirituality and all that noise is lost on me, but not the demonstrable effects. I think people find all sorts of ways to get themselves motivated.

It's only absurd because you are ignorant of the culture he lived in. Still, it is a coherent teaching that Christians believe, and it clearly does not glorify barbarism as you allege Christianity does.

The entire Bible is supposed to be about Jesus, it's a crescendo that builds to a climax.

Lots of people embrace ethics and morality like what you've quoted and they live their lives according to it and it has nothing to do with Jesus. The idea that it would take a divine being of immeasurable intelligence to impart such a ubiquitous maxim is absurd and you haven't done anything to prove me wrong.

You have claimed the teaching that Oprah believe are coherent. That has been proven false.

That's a lie. I said her teachings strike me as being more coherent than Christian beliefs. They make more sense to me than Christian beliefs do but I choose neither.

You have claimed that Christianity glorifies barbarism. That has been proven false.

Did you prove it false? I didn't see you do it.

Jesus doesn't claim that he is his Father, but that he is one with his Father, which is perfectly coherent to me, but beyond your comprehension at this time.

It's pretty bizarre man. You should try to keep things in perspective and imagine what your beliefs look like from the outside.

 

[allsmiles]

Do you think it's nuts? Do you think Thunders Muse is nuts for believing that? :think:

It's less nutty to me than Christianity. I still don't believe it but I can understand it. It doesn't insult my intellect.

 

[allsmiles]

I just posted a video of him teaching. Can you see what's wrong with what he's teaching?



I got the same message from the book of Romans, written nearly 2000 years before Tolle's was soiling his diapers, based on scriptures much older than 2000 years, and it didn't cost me a dime to read it.

False Christs like Tolle's mix truth with lies to make money. The problem isn't the truth, it's the lies.

What lies?

 

[allsmiles]

Bull. No you don't. Else you'd never have been so remarkably stupid as to say and then defend this ridiculous "glorifies human sacrifice/brutal barbarism" argument of yours.

I get the justice part of the human sacrifice but I don't understand how that precludes the glorification of an act of brutal barbarism.

You're not communicating very well with me. Even if you did have a valid point to make I doubt you'd be able to convey it to me well.

It's a completely stupid thing to say and you know it. Yet you not only say it, you defend it. You might as well go ahead and stick your fingers in your ears and Lalalala for the rest of thread. It wouldn't be any less childish and thoughtless that this.

As far as I'm concerned you're throwing a temper tantrum.

I'm sorry if I'm speaking a tad rough here but I think you're too smart to be behaving this stupidly.

I have no idea what you're talking about lady. I think you're throwing a temper tantrum and you're failing miserably to competently and maturely communicate anything to me about anything. I think you need to get off my back, you'll probably feel relieved to have done so.

 

[lowerlevel]

I'll just repost this here:

What bothers me is not "encouraging self improvement" but in the way she does it. Its not about facing the reality of the mistakes you make, its about telling yourself your a good person (regardless whether you are or arent). I just wonder if people shouldnt be encouraged to take a long hard look at their depravity, facing the reality of that, and starting from that point maybe they could start building some real "self- improvement."
If you have cracks in the walls of your house, you can keep covering it up, or you can go in and fix the foundations.
Even secular self help should see some wisdom in that?
It seems to me that she is taking it upon herself to "decide the well being of others" - and turning a profit from it.
but what do I know... i dont even watch the show

 

[elohiym]

OK, from what I have read, Tolle speaks about how we go through life, almost unconsciously, focused on conflict, anger etc. We are fighting with everything around us.

So he states what appears to be self-evident. The reader thinks, "hey, he's onto something."

The idea is to let go of all that stuff, which is just fighting ourselves and allow ourselves to focus on God...non-dualism stuff.

Right. He tells you to work to "let go of all that stuff." He tells you how to do it...kinda...right? What does he tell you to do to let go of all that stuff? That's what his customers pay to learn from him, the meditations, exercises, and neurolinguistic programming techniques. They pay big bucks for it, too; but ultimately, they are merely placed on a treadmill of working to "get right" by Tolle's standard.

The pain body he speaks of, is that part of ourselves that is separate from God and thrives on the conflict, anger etc.

His "pain body" concept is simply a problem-reaction-solution setup. He created a fictitious concept called the pain body (the problem), that creates a reaction in his audience and desire to fix the problem that conveniently he offers the solution for.

At approximately 2:25 in that video he contradicts his whole "pain body" concept when he states that when you see your own drama as illusion you either laugh or smile, failing to realize that he just got through explaining that when people laugh at an illusory drama on a T.V. screen it's the "pain body" laughing, enjoying, and craving it.

His teaching on the pain body is completely incoherent. I hope you can now see that. If not, watch the video again and look for his contradiction around 2:25.

 

[Son of Jack]

I'm trying so hard to refrain from inserting myself into this conversation, allsmiles...:chuckle: (inside joke)

I have found it rather entertaining.

PS - Oprah's beliefs are easier to accept because they are cotton candy. They taste pretty good (to some people...I have never liked cotton candy), but they completely lack any substance.

 

[allsmiles]

So he states what appears to be self-evident. The reader thinks, "hey, he's onto something."



Right. He tells you to work to "let go of all that stuff." He tells you how to do it to...kinda...right? What does he tell you to do to let go of all that stuff? That's what his customers pay to learn from him, the meditations, exercises, and neurolinguistic programming techniques. They pay big bucks for it, too; but ultimately, they are merely placed on treadmill of working to "get right" by Tolle's standard.



His "pain body" concept is simply a problem-reaction-solution setup. He created a fictitious concept called the pain body (the problem), that creates a reaction in his audience to desire to fix the problem that conveniently he offers the solution for.

At approximately 2:25 in that video he contradicts his whole "pain body" concept when he states that when you see your own drama as illusion you either laugh of smile, failing to realize that he just got through explaining that when people laugh at an illusory drama on a T.V. screen it's the "pain body" laughing, enjoying, and craving it.

His teaching on the pain body is completely incoherent. I hope you can now see that. If not, watch the video again and look for his contradiction around 2:25.

:rotfl: