toldailytopic: Internet bullying - where do you draw the line?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 30th, 2010 10:26 AM

toldailytopic: Internet bullying - where do you draw the line?

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[Nathon Detroit]

It seems like everyday there is a new story regarding internet bullying. What should be done about these cases (if anything)?

Just yesterday...
Victim of Secret Dorm Sex Tape Posts Facebook Goodbye, Jumps to His Death

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Another recent case...

Teens Indicted After Allegedly Taunting Girl Who Hanged Herself

 

[Granite]

It's easy, cheap, reprehensible, and cowardly.

I wouldn't be opposed to treating these people as accessories to murder if not outright murderers.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

This is an interesting issue. Where do you draw the line on this? If a person commits suicide how can you prove it was because of what somebody said to them on the internet?

Don't get me wrong.... we all know that people say some really mean and harsh things online but it seems to me there could be no logical limit to what could be considered internet bullying.

 

[CabinetMaker]

At the very least, I think that some of these cases should be prosecuted for reckless indifference or endangerment.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

It's easy, cheap, reprehensible, and cowardly.

I wouldn't be opposed to treating these people as accessories to murder if not outright murderers.

What if somebody committed suicide after interacting with you online? I must admit I have considered killing myself after reading your posts on occasion

But seriously, what if you were just trying to tell a person online that something they were doing (say alcohol addiction) was horrible and they were ruining their life. The next day that person kills themself and now the government wants to arrest you for pushing them over the edge on the internet.

 

[Granite]

What if somebody committed suicide after interacting with you online? I must admit I have considered killing myself after reading your posts on occasion

Likewise! Nobody's perfect.

But seriously, what if you were just trying to tell a person online that something they were doing (say alcohol addiction) was horrible and they were ruining their life. The next day that person kills themself and now the government wants to arrest you for pushing them over the edge on the internet.

There's a gigantic difference between telling someone they should stop drinking and telling someone the world would be a better place without them. Unless the individual in question quit cold turkey and went into fatal withdrawal based on your advice, I can't see how this advice could be construed as malicious (and even that would be a stretch). Telling people to kill themselves and attacking them repeatedly shows a pattern of malicious intent that contributes to a person's death, in some cases, and if not homicide, the charge should appropriately be depraved indifference or reckless endangerment.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

There's a gigantic difference between telling someone they should stop drinking and telling someone the world would be a better place without them. Unless the individual in question quit cold turkey and went into fatal withdrawal based on your advice, I can't see how this advice could be construed as malicious (and even that would be a stretch). Telling people to kill themselves and attacking them repeatedly shows a pattern of malicious intent that contributes to a person's death, in some cases, and if not homicide, the charge should appropriately be depraved indifference or reckless endangerment.

That seems reasonable, in fact I banned one of my favorite TOL'ers about 8 years ago because he told somebody on TOL the world would be a better place without them and they should go kill themself.

We have had a long standing rule that you cannot say those types of things on TOL.

However, what scares me is that we (as a society) might start getting looser and looser with our definition as to what internet bullying actually is.

I have no doubt that many conversations on TOL would be viewed as internet bullying by some but not by others, so where do we draw the line and who draws it?

 

[Granite]

That seems reasonable, in fact I banned one of my favorite TOL'ers about 8 years ago because he told somebody on TOL the world would be a better place without them and they should go kill themself.

Was that one of Sozo's many handles here? Because he pulled that charming routine on me at least once.

Anyway...

However, what scares me is that we (as a society) might start getting looser and looser with our definition as to what internet bullying actually is.

I agree. The Internet makes people bolder, and often crueler, than they'd be in person. Talk is cheap, especially when you're faceless, anonymous, and far away from the person you're attacking. What concerns me is the lack of punishment for cases that a thinking person can put together in a New York minute. When a teenage girl's deceived, abused, attacked, and savaged online (by an adult, no less), I think it's safe to say something close to murder's taken place when the girl takes her own life. Would she be alive today if not for the bullying? We need to figure out a way to determine what to do when the answer appears to be yes.

I have no doubt that many conversations on TOL would be viewed as internet bullying by some but not by others, so where do we draw the line and who draws it?

Not sure. Intent? Malice? A pattern of repetition? Past history/relationship with the victim would in some cases make this a little more clean-cut.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That seems reasonable, in fact I banned one of my favorite TOL'ers about 8 years ago because he told somebody on TOL the world would be a better place without them and they should go kill themself.

We have had a long standing rule that you cannot say those types of things on TOL.

However, what scares me is that we (as a society) might start getting looser and looser with our definition as to what internet bullying actually is.

I have no doubt that many conversations on TOL would be viewed as internet bullying by some but not by others, so where do we draw the line and who draws it?

That becomes an interesting question for you as the owner of a web site. Will you be treated like the bar tender and prosecuted because you did not delete posts that lead a person to commit suicide?

 

[CabinetMaker]

...
I agree. The Internet makes people bolder, and often crueler, than they'd be in person. Talk is cheap, especially when you're faceless, anonymous, and far away from the person you're attacking.
...

[aside]
This is one reason why I think a moral code based on God's word is more effective that a moral code based on human values. Under human values, it is possible for internet bullying to be justified at some point. Under God's morals, my behavior is always the same whether I am typing on a key board or having this discussion face to face with you. My behavior as a Christian should always be the same.
[/aside]

 

[Granite]

[aside]
This is one reason why I think a moral code based on God's word is more effective that a moral code based on human values. Under human values, it is possible for internet bullying to be justified at some point. Under God's morals, my behavior is always the same whether I am typing on a key board or having this discussion face to face with you. My behavior as a Christian should always be the same.
[/aside]

Oh please. "Rebuking" or "truth smacking" someone is a perfect euphemism for bullying, CM, and you should know that full well.

 

[Newman]

We all have free speech. <-That's a period, by the way.

People's rights end where somebody else's begins. And however unfortunate some situations can be with internet bullying, the lines have to be drawn with liberty in mind.

Site owners, like you, Knight, have the responsibility to prevent and disallow people from engaging in such behavior. Now, that doesn't mean that it's your fault if somebody commits suicide, but your site will be more successful with those rules in place, and sites that don't, won't.

Juries also have responsibility to provide justice for cases with weird externalities and whatnot.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

if a video was posted showing a thief stealing diamonds, the crime is exposed and the thief is (hopefully) ashamed of his crime but at least he knows he's been caught and that everyone can see his guilt.
if a video was posted showing a person picking up trash in a park and putting it in the waste container, that person might blush from it being known if he was humble or shy, but he wouldn't be ashamed of what was videoed, would he?
when a criminal / lawless person is caught in the act,
should it be covered up / overlooked ?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Site owners, like you, Knight, have the responsibility to prevent and disallow people from engaging in such behavior.

Yet we can't prevent and disallow that type of activity completely. I don't read every thread or every post on TOL and certainly can't read all the PM's and profile messages.

When you sign up on TOL you agree to the following:

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Do you think that is a fair agreement? Should I alter it in anyway?

 

[Arthur Brain]

That seems reasonable, in fact I banned one of my favorite TOL'ers about 8 years ago because he told somebody on TOL the world would be a better place without them and they should go kill themself.

We have had a long standing rule that you cannot say those types of things on TOL.

However, what scares me is that we (as a society) might start getting looser and looser with our definition as to what internet bullying actually is.

I have no doubt that many conversations on TOL would be viewed as internet bullying by some but not by others, so where do we draw the line and who draws it?

I think the primary cases of internet bullying reflect those that occur in "real life" aka the schoolground, workplace and sadly even the home. I'd define it as ongoing harassment in the main as oppose to heated exchanges on a discussion board.

Unless there's a history or perpetual online stalking between posters here then I don't see anything that resembles bullying. It's easy enough to 'give as good as you get' with the anonymity of the keyboard so the insults and whatnot just don't cut it. Otherwise I've been 'bullied' 1265 times and counting....

lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yet we can't prevent and disallow that type of activity completely. I don't read every thread or every post on TOL and certainly can't read all the PM's and profile messages.

When you sign up on TOL you agree to the following:

Forum Rules

Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.

Although the administrators and moderators of TheologyOnline will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of TheologyOnline, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of TheologyOnline reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

By agreeing to our terms you grant TheologyOnline and it's owners the right publish and or re-publish any content that you post on these community forums.

All members of this community participate at the pleasure of the TheologyOnline staff and your participation can be terminated for any reason at any time.

You do not have the right to NOT be offended on these forums. We have a diverse group of members and we do not control the things they post (witin reason) including things that might offend you.​

Do you think that is a fair agreement? Should I alter it in anyway?

:think:

Only that you might want to alter the spelling to 'within' in the last paragraph, lest Lighthouse notice it...

 

[fool]

:think:

Only that you might want to alter the spelling to 'within' in the last paragraph, lest Lighthouse notice it...

Well he's definitly gonna see it now that you pointed it out.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Well he's definitly gonna see it now that you pointed it out.

Well actually I'm on his ignore list so he wouldn't have noticed, though he will now because you've decided to quote me....

Btw, he'll also notice you've spelt 'definitely' wrong too...