toldailytopic: How did the universe come into existence?

[Nathon Detroit]

Does it have to be God? Could it be something else?

Since you don't know... and since you cant comment on things you don't know... why don't you stay out of this conversation. :wave2:

Leave it to us folks who are mature enough to discuss these kinds of things. :up:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No need to be so smug about it. I think that deep down inside you know the answer - NOBODY REALLY knows. That includes yours truly. But I will go (at least tentatively) with the 'Big Bang' theory. Certainly far more empirically based evidence for that and far, far, far more plausible than a 'great, omnipotent spirit / force' just kind puffed everything into existence. Just sayin'...............

Fair enough.

See? It wasn't so hard to state your own beliefs was it?

It's like pullin' teeth with you guys. :sigh:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

As for the OP's question. I have NO idea.

Do you have a guess? Do you have a "gutt" feel? Can you ponder a possible set of answers? Do you think some explanations are more likely or less likely than others?

 

[Squishes]

Fantastic! My 1 year old niece must be a genius.

Intellectual maturity is about methodology and ability and not about facts. So in that sense, your niece might be a genius.

Here's the thing.... are you not capable of having a conversation on this topic?

So far as I can tell, I have the most posts in this thread. So your worries are empirically wrong.

Can you only discuss things that you know beyond any doubt?

Yes, I can.

How limited is your intelligence if you can't even have conversations where you theorize and express "gutt" feelings and observations?

I do have conversations about the topic. I think an important role in conversation is to correct answers that are off-track and to offer skeptical replies to hypotheses that overextend.

 

[Squishes]

Since you don't know... and since you cant comment on things you don't know... why don't you stay out of this conversation. :wave2:

Leave it to us folks who are mature enough to discuss these kinds of things. :up:

What is your definition of a conversation? Is not someone who offers replies (see my posts to TH, for example) engaging in a conversation?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So far as I can tell, I have the most posts in this thread. So your worries are empirically wrong.

Yet all you have said is you don't know. Therefore you have added exactly ZERO to the thread. Well... other than proving once again that non-believers would rather talk about what Christians believe than what they themselves believe.

 

[pqmomba8]

Fair enough.

See? It wasn't so hard to state your own beliefs was it?

It's like pullin' teeth with you guys. :sigh:

Knight, you're a trip!

 

[Squishes]

Yet all you have said is you don't know. Therefore you have added exactly ZERO to the thread. Well... other than proving once again that non-believers would rather talk about what Christians believe than what they themselves believe.

Fair enough; I'll leave the thread.

 

[Stripe]

That's cool... I can dig it... just so long as you don't go asking for a more detailed timeline breakdown or anything like that...

You want more detail? OK!

Actually, I think I misspoke.

Yeah...

 

[Nathon Detroit]

What is your definition of a conversation? Is not someone who offers replies (see my posts to TH, for example) engaging in a conversation?

You engaged... you said you didn't know.... I tried several times to get you to make some type of theoretical guess... you danced around like a third grader... you claimed doing so made you "smart".... yet you still want to pick at other peoples answers.... and therefore now... you are just wasting everyone's time.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Fair enough; I'll leave the thread.

:wave2:

 

[Dena]

Do you have a guess? Do you have a "gutt" feel? Can you ponder a possible set of answers? Do you think some explanations are more likely or less likely than others?

I could discern between a good idea and a stupid idea but as for myself I have no guess or gut feelings. I like to think that the universe is a part of God and God is permeating through the entire universe but how that plays out in the "creation" of the universe? No clue.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Knight, you're a trip!

Maybe so... but at least I know where I'm goin'.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I could discern between a good idea and a stupid idea but as for myself I have no guess or gut feelings. I like to think that the universe is a part of God and God is permeating through the entire universe but how that plays out in the "creation" of the universe? No clue.

OK, well at least there is some type of pondering going on there and that's encouraging. :up:

 

[pqmomba8]

Maybe so... but at least I know where I'm goin'.

Right!!! Well, let me correct that for your.....you think you know where you're going. I assume (I know, I know, don't say it) that by "going" you meant like ultimately...right?

 

[fool]

Because that force would need to be capable of doing things that were not possible in the natural realm.

But if that force was capable, then it would be possible.

Namely creating out of nothing.

How do you know it was nothing?

Or put another way;
You seem to take everything Within and During this Universe and call it Natural and take everything Before and Outside this Universe and call it Supernatural. And I never understood that.

If a Supernatural Force Supernaturally created this Universe then wouldn't this Universe be Supernatural? And conversley if a Natural force Naturally created this Universe then wouldn't it be Natural? and how could you tell?

In other words;
Putting "Super" in front of it doesn't explain anything, it's sorta the opposite of an explaination.

Or finally;
That which Is Is, when you see something that Can't Be then you need to change your understanding of what Can and Can't be and not make up Super Ising and SuperCaning and SuperCan'ting.

 

[Sherman]

I don't believe in an actual 'big bang'. God started by creating a watery ball. Let me explain:

Day 1 God created the heavens and the Earth. The earth at this time was covered in darkness until God created a light source and dived the light from the darkness. The Earth is described in the bible as formless and void with the Spirit hovering over the waters. The bible doesn't say this light source is the sun. He just calls the light time day and the dark time night.

On day 2 God made a firmament dividing the waters below and above. An He called this firmament Heaven. Basically to begin creating the Universe He started with a watery sphere, He expanded this sphere with the Earth at its center creating a space between the water covered earth and the upper waters. He stretched out the heavens like a curtain. The universe still rotates, with the outer edge traveling at higher speeds than the inner parts. That is why we get red shifts from the galaxies and quasars out there.

Dry land didn't appear on the earth until the third day. It wasn't until the fourth day of creation that God hung the sun and moon in the firmament.

God said it, I believe that settles it. You Old Earthers and Atheists out there can complain about my post all you want. I am not open to debate on this. This is what I believe.

So you can see where I get my belief: Scripture reference: Genesis 1: 1-19

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

In my belief system the bible is the trump card. It is God's written word. Can you show me the big bang in the bible?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

But if that force was capable, then it would be possible.

Yet to be outside the natural makes the force SUPERnatural.

How do you know it was nothing?

Because scientifically we know that matter and energy creating themselves out of nothing is impossible (within the natural realm).

Or put another way;
You seem to take everything Within and During this Universe and call it Natural and take everything Before and Outside this Universe and call it Supernatural. And I never understood that.

Hmmm. Ok.

If a Supernatural Force Supernaturally created this Universe then wouldn't this Universe be Supernatural? And conversley if a Natural force Naturally created this Universe then wouldn't it be Natural? and how could you tell?

Because we have laws that govern the natural universe and they are scientifically testable and true.

In other words;
Putting "Super" in front of it doesn't explain anything, it's sorta the opposite of an explaination.

Only because you haven't thought it through enough.

Or finally;
That which Is Is, when you see something that Can't Be then you need to change your understanding of what Can and Can't be and not make up Super Ising and SuperCaning and SuperCan'ting.

In this case... SUPER is just a word that means "outside of".

If it's impossible (based on scientific fact), yet it happened then... something outside of natural must be the explanation.

Now... are you going to take a whack at providing your own belief on this topic or did I miss it?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Right!!! Well, let me correct that for your.....you think you know where you're going. I assume (I know, I know, don't say it) that by "going" you meant like ultimately...right?

Sorry but I'm not in the Squishes camp of: "we can't know anything but I'm just positive that you are wrong". If someone asks me how you make an omelet... I tell them.

If it turns out I was wrong... then it turns out I was wrong.... but in the meantime, (and until I am convinced otherwise) I have no problem stating my viewpoint on issues.

 

[Stripe]

But if that force was capable, then it would be possible. How do you know it was nothing? Or put another way; You seem to take everything Within and During this Universe and call it Natural and take everything Before and Outside this Universe and call it Supernatural. And I never understood that. If a Supernatural Force Supernaturally created this Universe then wouldn't this Universe be Supernatural? And conversley if a Natural force Naturally created this Universe then wouldn't it be Natural? and how could you tell? In other words; Putting "Super" in front of it doesn't explain anything, it's sorta the opposite of an explaination. Or finally; That which Is Is, when you see something that Can't Be then you need to change your understanding of what Can and Can't be and not make up Super Ising and SuperCaning and SuperCan'ting.

It's called science, fool. We make observations and do experiments and call things laws based on the fact that they have never been shown false.

One of those laws is that you can't create something out of nothing.

In our universe that is impossible, thus we must postulate something unconstrained by our universe as the source of everything.