toldailytopic: Gay-marriage ban is ruled unconstitutional.

Rusha

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sorry, my mistake. So you do not believe that evolution has played a role in determining our thought process?

I do not debate CvsE because, IMO, it serves no purpose. However, I do believe that upbringing, experiences and biology all play a part in who we are and how we think.

how did you come to the conclusion that homosexuals were born that way?

It's using the simple logic of knowing that I was born as a heterosexual, and it would be impossible for me to truly change the sexual identity I was born with. It makes no sense that others could willfully change their sexual identity. I am not speaking of sex, but rather the desire and attraction a homosexual feels when viewing a member of their own gender as compared to the repulsion they feel when considering a relationship with someone of the opposite sex.

vague.. vague.. and more vague.. sorry I cant 'prove' you wrong, Since you said nothing of meaning just vague institutions on what you believe.

I already knew where your question of "where do rights come from" was leading.

So to the point, I do not agree that rights come from a supernatural creator that has never been proven to exist.
 

MaryContrary

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I am not speaking of sex, but rather the desire and attraction a homosexual feels when viewing a member of their own gender as compared to the repulsion they feel when considering a relationship with someone of the opposite sex.
Do you believe that repulsion is formed/determined/whatever in the same way the desire/attraction is? That is, that one is born with it in this manner?

I won't even follow up here. Just honestly curious.
 

Rusha

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Do you believe that repulsion is formed/determined/whatever in the same way the desire/attraction is? That is, that one is born with it in this manner?

I won't even follow up here. Just honestly curious.

Not a problem ... and yes I do. I am old enough to remember when I first discovered I liked boys and when I discovered that certain boys liked boys as well and some girls liked girls.

I was, and am today, seriously repulsed by the idea of same sex couples (mainly women, men don't bother me) being together because for *me* it wouldn't be natural. Because I don't view it as natural, it has the "ick factor". What reason would anyone possibly have for making the decision to be with their own sex outside of a natural inclination?

However, I also realize that it is not my place to intervene in the private lives of other consenting adults.
 

Angel4Truth

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The *attraction* is not a choice ... how one acts on the attraction is a choice.

That really doesn't answer what I asked.

Do you believe that bisexuals and pansexuals are born that way?

Attractions can happen as a result of many things - and not necessarily be something in genetic trait.
 

Rusha

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That really doesn't answer what I asked.

Do you believe that bisexuals and pansexuals are born that way?

Attractions can happen as a result of many things - and not necessarily be something in genetic trait.

Of course they can ... or it can be genetic. Do you believe that everyone is born a heterosexual?
 

Angel4Truth

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Of course they can ... or it can be genetic. Do you believe that everyone is born a heterosexual?

No, because some people are born with birth defects.

I believe that nearly everyone is born that way though.

I believe that those who exhibit bisexuality, homosexuality, pansexuality, etc.. do so because of either choice or something got messed up somewhere when they were growing up.

People develop all kinds of unhealthy and unnatural attractions to all kinds of stimuli for varying reasons.
 

MaryContrary

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I don't believe anyone is born hetero- or homo- sexual. I believe we are simply born sexual. The orientation forms later in life but may well have a genetic predisposition toward this, that or the other. Though it would be of very little consequence in light of all other factors influencing the formation of that orientation.

I believe that the formation of that orientation/attraction is largely beyond one's control at the time it is developed and can't reasonably be said to have been chosen.

I believe once formed that attraction is largely fixed. It can be influenced, increased, diminished or somewhat altered but can't truly be either eliminated or exchanged for another orientation/attraction.

I believe other attractions can be formed later in life and can even overshadow those (yes, plural as a possibility here) formed in childhood.

This squares with all I've seen and experienced personally. Nothing else I've seen put forth does.

Not that any of this generally has anything whatsoever to do with whether homosexuality is a sin or whether it should be accepted in society. But that's my likewise entirely irrelevant take on the matter regardless. :chuckle:
 

eameece

New member
Definitions only work if they are commonly accepted. It is commonly accepted that marriage means a faithful union of a man and a woman.
53% of Americans support the right of gays and lesbians to marry, including 70% of those under 35. So says the lawyer in the case on the Charlie Rose show.
If homosexuals can accept this obvious truth, then they will be quickly emancipated. But their failure to do so, instead trying to muscle in on real marriage, will mean them being pitted against the vast majority of ordinary married couples who feel aggrieved at their own faithful relationship being demeaned.
So people who do things different than they do, demean them?
Society will break down badly and quickly if ordinary marriage is undermined. Society does not depend on homosexual relationships but it does depend greatly on ordinary marriages. These are facts, not opinions. Don't oppose facts otherwise it will be clear that you are the bigot.
Why does society depend on ordinary marriages? At a time when population control is a great need in society? The fact is, society does not depend on ordinary marriage, as opposed to gay marriage. It is just different than what you consider normal and usual, so you are bothered by it. You find it "disgusting" for that reason, or else it contradicts what your preachers tell you.

It is interesting that I heard a spokesman for Prop.8 on the Newshour said that gay marriage "goes against biology." Funny how fundie culture warriors are all for "biology" when it suits their prejudice, but not for a major part of biology (evolution) when it does not-- as many of you say on the other recent topic of the day here about theistic evolution.
 

eameece

New member
No, because some people are born with birth defects.

I believe that nearly everyone is born that way though.

I believe that those who exhibit bisexuality, homosexuality, pansexuality, etc.. do so because of either choice or something got messed up somewhere when they were growing up.

People develop all kinds of unhealthy and unnatural attractions to all kinds of stimuli for varying reasons.

You just don't "like" gay people very much, do you?

Why not move to a country where there ARE no gay people?
 
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