toldailytopic: Euthanasia.

[Son of Jack]

They all have one thing in common, the death of an innocent human being at the hands of man.

MaryContrary argued for the Biblical perspective against assisted suicide (let's call it what it is and not give it the clean word that abortionists have given to their death culture: "choice").

God's Word always has been and always be good enough for me.

A person voluntarily ceasing treatment is not taking life.

I'll add that I agree that death is the enemy.

 

[BabyChristian]

Passive euthanasia is when the individual ceases to attempt to prolong life (i.e. letting nature take its course).

If a person wants to die due to their pain or the prognosis is hopeless, I see no difference in letting them die sooner than later by passive euthanasia as far as a sin goes.

I just don't see it as a sin.

Not allowing technology to prolong life to me is no different than some of your other types you named. You're still allowing yourself to die sooner.

There are people that are so mentally ill that they commit suicide and in such a case, God knows them an their issues (such as the 10% suicide rate of schizophrenics) and personally I believe their mentality is taken into consideration with God.

Excruciating pain and the knowledge that it's hopeless also can change someone's brain chemicals and I believe God is understanding even though it does state in the Bible that no one will be given more than one can handle in life, I do know that this is not always the case and it's an individual thing how much a person can handle.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Go

Go

If you have any interest in dialoguing or actually talking about the topic go ahead but you really need to grow up.

I have quite an interest in dialoguing. Let's start off with the major difference between the religion of "nothingism", i.e. moral relativists like yourself, and the religion of Chrisitianity.

Atheism has one "god" (subdivided into two): 1) man 2) the government of man.

This quote explains atheism (through the word "libertarian") perfectly:

"Those who embrace libertarianism believe that there is no ultimate authority to which men and their civil society must answer other than themselves and the words of their own constitutions and laws. Men are "free," and there should be as few restrictions on "freedom" as possible."

Of course that "freedom" can be seen through abortion, homosexuality, recreational drug use, pornography, prostitution, and suicide.

Christianity on the other hand acknowledges that God is sovereign over man's body, and even though we are given free will to choose, we have to choose wisely.

While the following quote came from a site that discussed homosexuality, it's very much pertinent to this topic:

"For Christians, it can?t be surprising that gay culture?s deformities and vices go so far beyond homosexuality itself. While we understand homosexuality to be innately wrong, we also understand that the bigger problem is people rejecting God?s standard, and thus God Himself. Once that happens, the door is wide open to any sort of behavior. As Dostoyevsky wrote, if there is no God, everything is permissible."
________
Homemade vaporizers

 

[Granite]

I have quite an interest in dialoguing. Let's start off with the major difference between the religion of "nothingism", i.e. moral relativists like yourself, and the religion of Chrisitianity.

...like anything of this is something I haven't heard before. Spare me.

Start a new thread if you like but abide by the house rules and don't hijack this one.

 

[Lighthouse]

Dying people should be allowed to die, not kept alive with machines so people have to decide if they want to intentionally kill them later.

 

[Quincy]

Death with dignity, is an oxymoron, Death is an indignity, it is the end of life as we know it, so it is the ultimate deprivation in our lives, that is an indignity. Anyone opting out sooner either doesn't have the guts to see their life through, or they are acceding to the importunings - overt or subliminal of society or their loved ones to save them from the inconvenience or the exposure to the care of the old, sick, or infirm dying. It's more about society and the relatives or friends who have become programmed to avoid any kind of exposure to pain, suffering, or obligation to care for others in their time of need.

In the end it comes down to the culture of death that has been promoted by government and by individuals with anti-social tendencies or who have their own agenda around death and its implications for them. It has its origins in the millions of unborn killed, now the box has been opened further, we're letting people kill themselves "for the right reason", who is next? What's the next euphemism that will be cooked up?

Says the chap who is obviously well enough to spend the time needed to type this on the internet. You know it all don't you?

 

[MaryContrary]

...like anything of this is something I haven't heard before. Spare me.

Start a new thread if you like but abide by the house rules and don't hijack this one.

Don't be a jerk, Granite.

Wait...I'm hijacking the thread, aren't I?

Hey, wait...aren't you hijacking the thread...?

Okay, well now I'm just confused. Someone's hijacking the thread but danged if I can tell who. :dizzy:

 

[Granite]

Don't be a jerk, Granite.

Wait...I'm hijacking the thread, aren't I?

Hey, wait...aren't you hijacking the thread...?

Okay, well now I'm just confused. Someone's hijacking the thread but danged if I can tell who. :dizzy:

The One Armed Man
On the Grassy Knoll
With the Particle Beam

Mystery solved.

 

[Rusha]

Death with dignity,

Means that terminal patients should get to decide if they want extra measures taken to prolong their existence.

When someone is lingering on and has no chance of surviving, their wishes should be the deciding factor as to what medical care is forthcoming.

 

[MaryContrary]

If a person wants to die due to their pain or the prognosis is hopeless, I see no difference in letting them die sooner than later by passive euthanasia as far as a sin goes.

I just don't see it as a sin.

Sure you do. Look here...

...personally I believe their mentality is taken into consideration with God...

...I believe God is understanding...

Taking into consideration about what? Understanding about what? Of course it's a sin. That's what you have God considering and understanding here.

Look, I agree, God surely takes these things into consideration. And I don't believe anyone goes to hell for committing suicide. That's solely based on one's acceptance or rejection of Christ, which itself assumes the capability to. But let's not give the impression that God has no issue with this.

Not allowing technology to prolong life to me is no different than some of your other types you named. You're still allowing yourself to die sooner.

Allowing someone to die and purposefully killing them are two different things. Withholding food and water from someone who cannot feed themselves, for example, is murder and not simply allowing someone to die.

Excruciating pain and the knowledge that it's hopeless also can change someone's brain chemicals and I believe God is understanding...

Agreed. And again, no one goes to hell for committing suicide. Certainly not for being driven to insanity by unbearable pain and then committing suicide. This doesn't make suicide acceptable, though. Nor any less assisting someone else in committing suicide.

...even though it does state in the Bible that no one will be given more than one can handle in life, I do know that this is not always the case and it's an individual thing how much a person can handle.

Interestingly, that's not in the bible anywhere. And it assumes everything bad that happens to you was given to you by God, which is not the case anyway.

A common misconception. Most people believe it says that. What it does say, and probably what most folk are thinking of when they "quote" this, is 1 Corinthians 10:13. Which actually speak to temptation.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (New King James Version)
13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

Sorry. Just me being me, jumping in there to nitpick everything to death...


[Edit: Uh...wow. Pun definitely NOT intended...my apologies.]

 

[Seydlitz77]

People have the right to refuse medical aid and do not resuscitate orders can be issued. In such respects people can choose medical death and avoid being kept alive by purely artificial means that can be quite painful and debilitating.

However I believe in God and I believe God has appointed each of us to our own trials in this life; if one of those trials is a difficult and ultimately terminal illness that will take a long time to actual cause our death or leave us in a nonfunctional state then actively ending such a life early would be to thumb our noses at God and say we do not trust or accept His chosen course.

In that light while it may be done out of a sense of compassion it is a sin.

 

[Granite]

Something about tender mercies being cruel comes to mind...

 

[Vaquero45]

This topic has come up before of course, I think it was "Wamba"? who posted a video* of a guy being burned at the stake by Indians. He's surrounded by maybe hundreds of them. His friend is being pursued fleeing the scene, he gets to a clear spot and stops just long enough to take an aimed rifle shot and put his friend (the guy being burned) out of his misery of a sure, inescapable, and horrible death.



I have no problem with that scenario.

I dont think this topic has a quick easy fit-all answer, but I expect I'd be opposed to euthanasia the majority of the time.

*(added in edit... a movie clip of course, lol, thought I should be clear tho')

 

[kmoney]

Those in their right mind who are suffering from a terminal condition should be allowed to go out on their own terms.

Those who sign a decree or will that stipulates they are to be euthanized following a pre-determined set of circumstances should have that right.

To prolong the suffering of the terminally ill is cruelty masquerading as compassion.

This is the most personal and significant decision imaginable—and we should allow ourselves to legally make it.

Basically my thoughts. :up:

It's tough, because this is something that can be easily abused and that should be strongly guarded against, but I think it should be allowed in certain cases.

 

[zoo22]

I'll start taking lessons in Christianity from you when you start believing in God.

I doubt that you would.

If Granite believed in God as you wanted him to, maybe you'd take "lessons," but otherwise, I doubt it.

It would be interesting seeing some kind of crazy diagram that charted TOL "believers" who believe other TOL "believers" are "real believers" or "fake believers."

Sorry for the topic interruption.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Go

Go

Says the chap who is obviously well enough to spend the time needed to type this on the internet. You know it all don't you?

If I thought I knew it all, I'd call myself an "atheist".

Scripture is quite clear on the killiing of the innocent. You continue to be an "ala carte atheist" (you get to pick and choose which of God's moral laws you want to abide by); I'll go with His word through Scripture.

And now, a word from our euthanasia friends at Denver Children's Hospital:
http://dylanwalborn.com/
________
OG KUSH

 

[bybee]

Well! Well!

Well! Well!

I doubt that you would.

If Granite believed in God as you wanted him to, maybe you'd take "lessons," but otherwise, I doubt it.

It would be interesting seeing some kind of crazy diagram that charted TOL "believers" who believe other TOL "believers" are "real believers" or "fake believers."

Sorry for the topic interruption.

A very interesting proposition! :think: bybee

 

[Town Heretic]

I doubt that you would.

Careful, you're perilously close to double-dog doubt territory.

If Granite believed in God as you wanted him to, maybe you'd take "lessons," but otherwise, I doubt it.

It would be interesting seeing some kind of crazy diagram that charted TOL "believers" who believe other TOL "believers" are "real believers" or "fake believers."

Sorry for the topic interruption.

I'd give the rest of you the sad, sad, comparative news, but humility prevents me from asserting my rightful place...darn humility. :mmph:

A Seattle conservative? :think: That's a bit like being the biggest fish in the desert.

On topic....so kmo is being burned alive and you've got this extra can of gasoline...what do you do?

 

[kmoney]

On topic....so there's this friend of yours and he's being burned alive and surrounded by hostiles. You have a rifle and a single bullet. You're a crack shot. What do you do?

Read the thread much?

Check out Vaq45's post. lain:


lain:

 

[Town Heretic]

Read the thread much?

Check out Vaq45's post. lain:


lain:

Thanks. Missed that one. Gave me an idea though so I edited my post. Let me know what you think of the new twist...

lain: