Thanks.
I'll post more scripture tomorrow which proves that sin produces death, not eternal torture in Hell. I have to go now. Don't eat the crayons while I'm gone.
toldailytopic: Eternal torment, Annihilationism or Universalism, which do you believe
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Thanks.
I'll post more scripture tomorrow which proves that sin produces death, not eternal torture in Hell. I have to go now. Don't eat the crayons while I'm gone.
well, you've done an excellent job today :first:
see you tomorrow! :wave2:
see you tomorrow! :wave2:
:rotfl:
Page 24 is completely collapsed for me because only Timotheos and resurrected posted on that entire page.
:rotfl:
Page 24 is completely collapsed for me because only Timotheos and resurrected posted on that entire page.
:rotfl:
James 1:15-16
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.
James is clear, sin brings forth death in the end. If you guys were right, James would have written "Sin, when it is fully grown brings forth eternal torture in Hell." James couldn't write that because the foul doctrine of eternal torturism had not been invented in James' time.
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.
James is clear, sin brings forth death in the end. If you guys were right, James would have written "Sin, when it is fully grown brings forth eternal torture in Hell." James couldn't write that because the foul doctrine of eternal torturism had not been invented in James' time.
let's see
if
this collapses
if
this collapses
there are those who make you really want to believe in hell
I finally gave up and put "The Sodden One" on ignore.
And Lo and behold Beethoven's ninth symphony, last movement, the "Ode to Joy" began to play.
At last I am free from that Compleat Miscreant! :drum:
Thanks,
Here's a bonus verse:
Whoever despises the word brings destruction on himself,
but he who reveres the commandment will be rewarded.
Proverbs 13:13 ESV
See how the message of eternal life for God's people and destruction for those who despise the message of salvation is written throughout the Bible?
I'll see you tomorrow with more proof of Conditional Immortality.
we'll all be eagerly awaiting your next show and tell!
bye timmy! :wave2:
bye timmy! :wave2:
There are so many scriptures supporting the true doctrine of Conditional Immortality and Overthrowing the false dogma of Eternal Torture, Here is another from James:
James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
God, who is the only Lawgiver and Judge saves those who turn to Him and destroys those who are wicked. This doesn't say "there is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to keep people from being tortured forever and is able to torture people forever", and that is what the verse would have to say if people like Sod and LH were correct. But there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that supports their false idea that the wicked go to Hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever when they are dead.
Destroy, not eternally torture.
James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
God, who is the only Lawgiver and Judge saves those who turn to Him and destroys those who are wicked. This doesn't say "there is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to keep people from being tortured forever and is able to torture people forever", and that is what the verse would have to say if people like Sod and LH were correct. But there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that supports their false idea that the wicked go to Hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever when they are dead.
Destroy, not eternally torture.
Exactly.
The latter point doesn't follow the former logically.
Can you show me anything that tells me the lost will go through the same process Jesus did? I can and have shown you verses that tell what happens to the lost. None of them include "like Jesus".
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3596892&postcount=273 (and there are more)
The claim that one "has prayed about this" regarding their beliefs has no effect on my believe in their doctrine. If AMR or Nang told you they prayed about Calvinism, if godrulz told you he prayed about mid Acts dispensation, if Meshak told you she prayed about the trinity, would you be impressed and reconsider? I do want to be right, I'll give praying a whirl. I have discussed and read studies on this topic. It is a huge sacred cow to most christian belief, it is a big factor in the way people describe/view God, and it needs to be fleshed out.
Maybe you could tickle my ears with scripture that makes me think the lost will go the the same things Jesus did. Then I'll look into it. As of now I have no real interest in that angle.
And, the fact that you appear to be ignoring Timotheos now is baffling to me, and makes me want to stop talking to you here. He has been overly polite beyond what is called for for the treatment he has received here and made many good posts.
Thanks! Although I did call him a Moron one time, and Sod too.
But I believe that the evidence supports that thesis.
timmy's a retarded attention hound :idunno:
Only if you take death to mean something other than spiritual death, much the same as where we were before Christ: dead in our trespasses. Or do you think we were annihilated before we received Him?
Jesus suffered what He suffered for us, in our place, so we wouldn't have to.
And aren't you forgetting that Death is thrown into the Lake of Fire before any human souls? How can they die if there is no more Death?
And why the qualifier of "eternal," or "everlasting," if "death" means annihilation? Those two 'e' words are there to tell us these things will not be undone, but annihilation can't be undone, so why the qualifiers?
And for whom was the everlasting fire prepared? Not for humans. Not when it was created. So if it will not annihilate those for whom it was created, as per Revelation 20:10, why would it annihilate those for whom it was not created?
Why not make it clear they would become non-extant?
I'm not making a claim. I asked you a question.
They won't go through the exact same thing, as Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven. And He never went into the Lake of Fire.
Speaking of the Lake of Fire:
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
-Revelation 20:10
If annihilation is true then why not annihilate the devil and the beast? And before you argue that they are spirits the false prophet is not, he will be human and here the text tells us he will be tormented forever, aka eternally.
And what about Daniel 12:2?
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
It's not about his demeanor, it's about the fact that I have come to understand there is no reasoning with him; he will not budge and therefore it is pointless for me to even try. He is not interested in discourse, or the possibility he might be wrong.
How about the scriptures that I posted that support my position? Do you think that the Bible is "retarded" too? Do you think that God's Word is "retarded"? I suppose you think that God Himself is "retarded".
You must, because I am just repeating what God said in His word.
From your posts, I can tell that you have a learning disability or a brain injury. So your statement that the Bible, God and me are all retarded is meaningless.
Now if you really think that I am "retarded", it should be an easy matter for you to refute the scriptures that I've posted. If you aren't retarded, and if you are correct, it would be simple to post the verse that says "The wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever." If you can't post that, then you wrong.
yes timmy, that's all very nice :first:
Just because I didn't change my position the first time you called me retarded? You didn't offer any scriptural support, you didn't offer any proof of your position, there was nothing to indicate that you knew anything at all. Why should I change my opinion to match your uninformed opinion? I agree with the Bible, and I posted the proof of that. You don't agree with the Bible, so I can't agree with you.
If you would post something that supports your false dogma, I would believe you. If there were a verse in the Bible that says "The wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tortured forever," that is all it would take.
But you haven't done that. Your insults won't change my mind. Your insults just prove that you don't know what you are talking about.
You are an idiot. What do you think that post proves? If you believe that the wicked go to hell to be tortured alive forever when they die, simply post the verse that says that. There is no reason to mock me at all, if the Bible supports your dumb ideas, then post it. If you can't then stop being stupid.