you're a strange little dude, timmy :idunno:
toldailytopic: Eternal torment, Annihilationism or Universalism, which do you believe
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Just insults? There is no scripture to back up your false tradition. That's why you and your buds have to use insults. It's not working for you.
reason doesn't work for them
Aimiel
Well-known member
Not as strange as what you do: ignore His Words and pretend that certain Scriptures aren't in your Bible. Cherry-picking and making doctrine out of small portions of The Holy Bible will always lead to having your understanding darkened as you so aptly prove. It isn't my job to win this argument, merely believe His Word and share it with you. The Holy Ghost is responsible for the outcome. I only pray that you realize your error before you lead others into the darkness that you're trapped by.
As if you could give him anything more.
Timotheos, I like your posts here, don't waste your energy on this flaming idiot.
goodness vaq
what's got your shorts in a knot?
don't tell me you buy into timmy's annihilationist crap
what's got your shorts in a knot?
don't tell me you buy into timmy's annihilationist crap
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Stop messing on floor and prove it wrong.
I do in fact heavily lean toward it. I have several interesting passages on the subject, I don't have time right now but I think I'll jump in tonight.
I'm not the one who called you a retard. Don't confuse me with resurrected. He doesn't like to contribute anything of worth to most discussions.
- Can you support that accusation?
- Can you support that accusation?
- I do love my enemies, else I wouldn't be here trying to correct you.
And I've shown you that your interpretation is in error. I did address the Scriptures you posted to me, and even the ones you posted to resurrected.
It's funny though, how you resort to saying Revelation is completely symbolic but your passages aren't.
No I didn't.:nono:
How many insults have I posted toward you?
Liar.
I never called you a "deluded retard." That was someone else. SO don't take it out on me. And I don't respect resurrected. I just happen to agree with him on the subject of annihilation. I agree with other people on many things, but agreement is not respect.
No, I found a respected authority [Thayer] on the subject who says it was used as a metaphor when discussing Hell.
:doh:
Eternal torment in Hell is destruction, an eternal [ongoing] destruction; a destruction that never ends.
I have never claimed that it does not mean "destroyed," or that it means "not destroyed," or "never destroyed." It means "destroyed."
The problem here is that you don't know the meaning of the word "destroyed."
de·stroy
[dih-stroi] verb (used with object) 1. to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.
2. to put an end to; extinguish.
3. to kill; slay.
4. to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate.
5. to defeat completely.
And devastate is a synonym.
devastate (ˈdɛvəˌsteɪt) — vb
1. to lay waste or make desolate; ravage; destroy
2. to confound or overwhelm, as with grief or shock
If the fuel is consumed then the fire will be quenched. Do you not know how fire works? And what do you think "consume" means?
con·sume [kuhn-soom] verb, con·sumed, con·sum·ing. verb (used with object)
1. to destroy or expend by use; use up.
2. to eat or drink up; devour.
3. to destroy, as by decomposition or burning: Fire consumed the forest.
4. to spend (money, time, etc.) wastefully.
5.to absorb; engross: consumed with curiosity.
As you can see, it does not always mean "to be destroyed through consumption."
Care to be a little more specific with that word? What are the Hebrew characters? Where is it used? Can you link to the definition?
I ask because I was going to and I found three different versions in one lexicon. So I'm not really sure to which of them you are referring?
But if you want to be disingenuous and not offer up the necessary information I can understand why.
Also, you have yet to answer a question from earlier: was Jesus annihilated?
I'm claiming that Jesus was not annihilated. Yes His body died. And His spirit was separated from the Father, and descended into Paradise/Abraham's Bosom [as shown by His own words]. But neither was annihilated [as shown by the resurrection]. This is what is known as spiritual death. We can clearly see that a spiritual death is not an annihilation because Jesus suffered all the loss of the damned without annihilation.
They're not alive; they are dead.
You are, again, misunderstanding the meaning in the usage of these words.
I've already explained "perish" to you when you used another verse with the word.
ἀπόλλυμι
- to destroy
- to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
- render useless
- to kill
- to declare that one must be put to death
- metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
- to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
- to destroy
- to lose
Oh, I forgot, only Revelation is allowed to be metaphorical.
And as for "life."
ζωή
- life
- the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate
- every living soul
- life
- of the absolute fulness of life, both essential and ethical, which belongs to God, and through him both to the hypostatic "logos" and to Christ in whom the "logos" put on human nature
- life real and genuine, a life active and vigorous, devoted to God, blessed, in the portion even in this world of those who put their trust in Christ, but after the resurrection to be consummated by new accessions (among them a more perfect body), and to last for ever.
It is much more than simply being alive.
Do you know what "quicken" means?
ζωοποιέω & συζωοποιέω
- to produce alive, begat or bear living young
- to cause to live, make alive, give life
- by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
- to restore to life
- to give increase of life: thus of physical life
- of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life
- metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing
- to make one alive together
- of Christians, with Christ
Respectively.
That is the life that is eternal, not simply a state of being alive.
If we have passed from death into life then we were previously dead. What do you think that means?
I have shown you verses that speak of eternal torment and all you do is claim they're symbolic while denying the verses you use to support your argument are not. That's ridiculous!
κόλασις is used only twice in the NT and is only translated as "punishment" one time [Matthew 25:46], and as "torment" the other [1 John 4:18].
βασανισμός is used five times in Revelation, as is βασανίζω. The former is only used in Revelation.
The latter in Revelation 14:10 and the former in Revelation 14:11.
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
-Revelation 14:9-11
The latter is also used in Revelation 20:10.
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
He thinks Revelation is completely symbolic; of course he has to in order to hold on to his error.
You believe in annihilation? Why am I not surprised?
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lighthouse said:
Stop acting like GM and it won't be an issue.
Make contributions of substance instead of simple drive-by insults.
I'm not opposed to the insults, though. You know that.
That said, I do like you. And I don't disrespect you.
i do enjoy making posts of greater substance than i have lately, but i can't cut and paste on my dad's ipad, and the pcs i've been using at the dept of labor and the library and at school, i've been posting while doing other more important things
:noway: yeah, yeah, i know - more important than posting on tol?
:noway: yeah, yeah, i know - more important than posting on tol?
2 Peter 2:12 (NASB)
12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,
12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,
Psalm 49:20 (NASB)
20 Man in his pomp, yet without understanding,
Is like the beasts that perish.
20 Man in his pomp, yet without understanding,
Is like the beasts that perish.
Does anyone believe animals are eternally tortured after death?
Luke 9:23-25 (NASB)
23 And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. 24 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it. 25 For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits himself?
23 And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. 24 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it. 25 For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits himself?
Matthew 13:40 (NASB)
40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the [a]end of the age.
40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the [a]end of the age.
Do tares burn forever?
Psalm 37:20 (NASB)
20 But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
20 But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
Perish and vanish away. It that the traditional description of eternal torment?
Psalm 37:1-2 (NASB)
37 Do not fret because of evildoers,
Be not envious toward wrongdoers.
2 For they will wither quickly like the grass
And fade like the green herb.
37 Do not fret because of evildoers,
Be not envious toward wrongdoers.
2 For they will wither quickly like the grass
And fade like the green herb.
David thought grass would be tortured for eternity?
Malachi 4:1-5 (NASB)
4 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2 “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.
5 “Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.
4 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2 “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.
5 “Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.
Chaff doesn't burn forever, people turned to ashes are not eternally in pain.
Luke 17:33 (NASB)
33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
John 12:25 (NASB)
25 He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.
25 He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.
The lost are not preserved, they do not keep their life eternally.
2 Peter 2:6 (NASB)
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
Jude 1:7 (NASB)
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
The fire is eternal, are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning?
Romans 6:23 (NASB)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Galatians 6:8 (NASB)
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Romans 8:13 (NASB)
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you [a]must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you [a]must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Eternal life is for the saved. The lost get "death".
Matthew 10:28 (NASB)
28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The body and soul are destroyed in hell.
Hebrews 10:39 (NASB)
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
Destruction is the opposite of preserving the soul.
-----------------
Now for the big favorite:
Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)
Doom for Worshipers of the Beast
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Doom for Worshipers of the Beast
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Looks bad right? Now see....
Isaiah 34:9-10 (NASB)
9 [a]Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
9 [a]Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
Edom would be destroyed for sure, is it still on fire? Smoke still rising? The land would be later inhabited quite nicely by animals. Paul prayed "night and day", forever? There is simply no way I can take this as it casually reads, in light of all the other verses on the topic.
Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [a]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [a]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB)
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [a]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [a]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
The man will be "destroyed" in the fire like all other men, the beast, the devil, and his angels will be eternally tormented. Jesus tells us:
Luke 20:34-36 (NASB)
34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Those who are considered worthy and are sons of God will be like Angels, in that they cannot die. Not the lost.
Acts 20:26-27
“Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. (27) For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.”
Why wouldn't Paul let us know about eternal torture in very clear terms if he was worried about having blame from withholding info?“Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. (27) For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.”
I said all of this very matter of factually, and I am about 99% on board with it. I am open to be shown error here, but I wanted to show that this is not the the simple slam dunk topic that most of Christianity thinks it is. The flippant insults being thrown at timotheos here are sad. There is a lot to consider.
Here is a link to a study (my source for this that I paraphrased and added my own .02 from) with WAY more scripture and explanation. It is WAY better than my post here.
tldr version: see this link... (it's WAY longer though
)http://www.hell-know.net/
timmy doesn't get the reactions he gets because of the quality of his arguments - he gets it because he ignores sincere, well reasoned rebuttals and acts like a deluded, needy retard, generally
have you looked at his other thread, in which this was thrashed out ad nauseum?
he reminds me of aggie naggie - desperate to engage, desperate to claim victory
have you looked at his other thread, in which this was thrashed out ad nauseum?
he reminds me of aggie naggie - desperate to engage, desperate to claim victory
Why do you need to cut and paste?
2 Peter 2:12 (NASB)
12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,Psalm 49:20 (NASB)Does anyone believe animals are eternally tortured after death?
20 Man in his pomp, yet without understanding,
Is like the beasts that perish.
Luke 9:23-25 (NASB)
23 And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. 24 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it. 25 For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits himself?Matthew 13:40 (NASB)Do tares burn forever?
40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the [a]end of the age.
Psalm 37:20 (NASB)Perish and vanish away. It that the traditional description of eternal torment?
20 But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
Psalm 37:1-2 (NASB)David thought grass would be tortured for eternity?
37 Do not fret because of evildoers,
Be not envious toward wrongdoers.
2 For they will wither quickly like the grass
And fade like the green herb.
Malachi 4:1-5 (NASB)Chaff doesn't burn forever, people turned to ashes are not eternally in pain.
4 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2 “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.
5 “Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.
Luke 17:33 (NASB)
33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.John 12:25 (NASB)The lost are not preserved, they do not keep their life eternally.
25 He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.
2 Peter 2:6 (NASB)
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;Jude 1:7 (NASB)The fire is eternal, are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning?
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
Romans 6:23 (NASB)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Galatians 6:8 (NASB)
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.Romans 8:13 (NASB)Eternal life is for the saved. The lost get "death".
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you [a]must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Matthew 10:28 (NASB)The body and soul are destroyed in hell.
28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Hebrews 10:39 (NASB)Destruction is the opposite of preserving the soul.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
-----------------
Now for the big favorite:Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)Looks bad right? Now see....
Doom for Worshipers of the Beast
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Isaiah 34:9-10 (NASB)Edom would be destroyed for sure, is it still on fire? Smoke still rising? The land would be later inhabited quite nicely by animals. Paul prayed "night and day", forever? There is simply no way I can take this as it casually reads, in light of all the other verses on the topic.
9 [a]Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [a]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB)The man will be "destroyed" in the fire like all other men, the beast, the devil, and his angels will be eternally tormented. Jesus tells us:
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [a]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Luke 20:34-36 (NASB)Those who are considered worthy and are sons of God will be like Angels, in that they cannot die. Not the lost.
34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Acts 20:26-27Why wouldn't Paul let us know about eternal torture in very clear terms if he was worried about having blame from withholding info?
“Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. (27) For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.”
I said all of this very matter of factually, and I am about 99% on board with it. I am open to be shown error here, but I wanted to show that this is not the the simple slam dunk topic that most of Christianity thinks it is. The flippant insults being thrown at timotheos here are sad. There is a lot to consider.
Here is a link to a study (my source for this that I paraphrased and added my own .02 from) with WAY more scripture and explanation. It is WAY better than my post here.
tldr version: see this link... (it's WAY longer though
http://www.hell-know.net/
Do you realize that you ignored the word "torment" in the verses you posted when it was present and didn't post any verses that laid it out plainly? If you want to know what they are look at my posts.
"Torment" is in only two of the passages I posted (according to my search thingy) and I addressed it quite plainly in one of them.
The usage in rev 14 would be referring to dying in flames over whatever period of time. It says the smoke of the torment goes on, not the torment. Which I also addressed by way of comparing the Isaiah passage. I wouldn't call either case "ignoring".
Nothing on any of the other passages?
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Name calling proves your lack of substance.
And "Lighthouse", your entire argument hinges on apollumi, thanatos and related terms not meaning destruction and death. You are simply in error on this point. If apollumi doesn't mean destruction, why is it consistently translated destruction? And if thanatos doesn't mean death, why is it translated death? And if you have scriptural evidence why do you use insults instead of evidence? You are no better than Mr Resurrected because you both use insults.
Really? You want me to support my statement that you are not Jesus Christ?
I haven't been counting. Sorry. Why don't you go count them up?
Add this one to the tallly.
No, you called me deluded, a troll, and a liar. With the insults flying out of you two like chips from a manure spreader it is hard to keep track. I don't think it is better to be called a "deluded lying troll" than it is to be called a "deluded retard", so I am simply going to ignore anyone who insults me. I'm not saying "don't insult me" because I know that I can't change your nature. I'm saying that I won't respond to anyone who insults me, unless I feel like it, I will post scripture supporting my case. If you feel that you need me to respond to something you've said, you will have to retract the insults.
So now carrying forward with the biblical proof that the wicked perish instead of being tortured alive forever:
Jesus said in John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
Jesus did not say "whoever believes has passed from eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever to eternal life in heaven without torture."
So that's Matthew 3:12, Matthew 7:13, Matthew 13:30, Luke 13:3 and 5, John 3:16, Ezekiel 18:4, Romans 6:23 and John 5:24
And here is a list of verses that say that the wicked will go to Hell when they die where they will be tortured or tormented alive forever (while they are dead):
None.
If anyone thinks I am deluded, a retard, or a deluded retard, they always have the option of NOT READING WHAT I POST!
So if He did say "these will depart into everlasting punishment" you would believe Him? and conversely if you preach another message will it make you liar?
"Death" is, in this instance, everlasting. It is the annihilation of the soul. It no longer exists.
For those who love God, this very thought is terrifying.