toldailytopic: Does God require those in the Body of Christ keep the Law?

[jeremysdemo]

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Paulos]

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Romans 15:18
For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

2 Corinthians 2:9
For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

Philemon 1:21
Having confidence in thy obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou wilt also do more than I say.​

 

[Sherman]

toldailytopic: Does God require those in the Body of Christ keep the Law?

.

I let scripture speak for itself on this subject. The letters Paul wrote to the church are especially applicable to the Body of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ commissioned him to be His mouth piece to the church. A portion of the letter Paul wrote to the church at Galatia.

Galatians 4: 21-31 -
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.


This is given as a word picture. The old system of laws are likened to Hagar and Paul urges the Church to cast her out. The The Body of Christ is likened to the child of promise, born of the Spirit. A Christian is born of the Spirit. Those words are key to this word picture.

 

[Paulos]

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

1 Thessalonians 4:7-8
For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.​

 

[Jacob]

toldailytopic: Does God require those in the Body of Christ keep the Law?

I see "require", "Body of Christ", "keep", and "the Law".

So no.

As Big Tent Revival used to sing, "the standard is perfection, and we're all short of it".

This does not give us a license to sin, but it also does not make works a prerequisite for salvation.

The Best Thing Lyrics

Big Tent Revival

I know the road you're on
And where it's leading to
There ain't no coming back
If you make it through
It'll cost you everything
With nothing to show for it
But if you want it better, child
Here's your chance to go for it
The best thing in life
Is definitely free
The best thing in life
Is good for you and me

One thing's for certain
I have been taught
The key to heaven
Just can't be bought
'Cause the standard is perfection
And we are all short of it
In came Jesus
And he was above it

The best thing in life
Is definitely free
The best thing in life
Is good for you and me

BRIDGE:
Jesus on the cross
Paid the penalty
And offers back to us
Life eternally
The choice is up to you
Just remember this
No matter what you've done
Well, Jesus, he forgives...yeah

The best thing in life
Is definitely free
The best thing in life
Is definitely free

You hear what I'm sayin'?
The best thing in life
Is definitely free
The best thing in life
Is definitely free
The best thing in life
Is definitely free......

 

[chickenman]

If France has laws that say, "Don't steal" and "Don't spit on the sidewalk", then if I don't steal and if I don't spit on the sidewalk, I'm not abiding by the laws of France. I cannot keep something that I am not under and that was not given to me. I can do things that LOOK like French-law-keeping, but I'm not actually keeping their laws.

God gave the law to Israel, not to the Body of Christ. So if I try real hard to honor my father and mother, and I think I'm doing it to keep the law, then I'm fooling myself. I can't possibly keep one aspect of Israel's law since it wasn't given to me.

God didn't give the law to the Body of Christ, therefore God does not expect us to try to keep it. And we couldn't, even if we thought we had to try.

 

[zippy2006]

Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
Romans 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

 

[ICameBack]

If you rightly divide the word, the answer is both yes and no.
I am not justified by the law but I must work out my sanctification.
All I know is I don't want to hear this when I am before the throne Matt 7:23

 

[Jacob]

If France has laws that say, "Don't steal" and "Don't spit on the sidewalk", then if I don't steal and if I don't spit on the sidewalk, I'm not abiding by the laws of France. I cannot keep something that I am not under and that was not given to me. I can do things that LOOK like French-law-keeping, but I'm not actually keeping their laws.

God gave the law to Israel, not to the Body of Christ. So if I try real hard to honor my father and mother, and I think I'm doing it to keep the law, then I'm fooling myself. I can't possibly keep one aspect of Israel's law since it wasn't given to me.

God didn't give the law to the Body of Christ, therefore God does not expect us to try to keep it. And we couldn't, even if we thought we had to try.

You should honor your Father and Mother.

 

[chickenman]

You should honor your Father and Mother.

Of course. Did I say we should not?

 

[Jacob]

Of course. Did I say we should not?

Is the commandment found in the law?

 

[chickenman]

Is the commandment found in the law?

Yes.

 

[Jacob]

Yes.

Then maybe it's not against the law to observe it.

 

[Paulos]

You should honor your Father and Mother.

Ephesians 6:1-3
“Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.” (Exodus 20:12)​

 

[chickenman]

Then maybe it's not against the law to observe it.

I never said anything about it being against the law. I said we cannot keep it since we are not under the law given to Israel. How can you keep a law you're not under?

I live in Louisiana. In New York city, there's a law against spitting on the sidewalk. So if I choose to not spit on the sidewalk here in Louisiana, then am I obeying the law of New York City?

 

[Tambora]

I never said anything about it being against the law. I said we cannot keep it since we are not under the law given to Israel. How can you keep a law you're not under?

I live in Louisiana. In New York city, there's a law against spitting on the sidewalk. So if I choose to not spit on the sidewalk here in Louisiana, then am I obeying the law of New York City?

Nope, you are not breaking the law given for New Yorkers.

 

[chickenman]

Nope, you are not breaking the law given for New Yorkers.

Right. :up: Nor am I keeping it if I don't spit.

If I sit in my easy chair all day on Saturday, I'm not keeping Israel's law of the Sabbath. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I worked. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be stoned.

If I honor my father and mother, then I'm not keeping Israel's law. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I failed to honor them. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be executed.

And so on...

 

[Jacob]

I never said anything about it being against the law. I said we cannot keep it since we are not under the law given to Israel. How can you keep a law you're not under?

I live in Louisiana. In New York city, there's a law against spitting on the sidewalk. So if I choose to not spit on the sidewalk here in Louisiana, then am I obeying the law of New York City?

If we can't keep it, then what's the use in keeping it?

Not that we are saved by keeping it, but that we are commanded to keep it. We ought to be obedient, for God's sake and the sake of Christ.

When you say "it" you are talking about the command. The commandment to Honor your Father and Mother was given to Israel. "Then maybe it's not for us."

 

[zippy2006]

Right. :up: Nor am I keeping it if I don't spit.

If I sit in my easy chair all day on Saturday, I'm not keeping Israel's law of the Sabbath. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I worked. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be stoned.

If I honor my father and mother, then I'm not keeping Israel's law. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I failed to honor them. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be executed.

And so on...

It doesn't seem like that's what Paul was saying, at least with the moral law. After all, our consciences don't go away as Christians. The law is fulfilled by the spirit (Rom 3:31), not nullified. It is no longer an oppressive taskmaster, but rather a part of us (Jer 31:33).

:e4e:

 

[chickenman]

If we can't keep it, then what's the use in keeping it?

Not that we are saved by keeping it, but that we are commanded to keep it. We ought to be obedient, for God's sake and the sake of Christ.

When you say "it" you are talking about the command. The commandment to Honor your Father and Mother was given to Israel. "Then maybe it's not for us."

I can't tell if we're talking past each other, I'm not writing in an understandable way, or you're just being difficult for fun. I'm sorry if it's either of the first two. I'll try to be more clear.

Israel was given a commandment: Honor your father and mother. All individuals were to keep it, or else there would be a consequence.

Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deut. 5:16​

That was a law given specifically to Israel. It was not given to the Body of Christ. So we cannot keep nor break it. However, should we in the Body of Christ honor our fathers and mothers? Of course! Paul writes to members of the Body of Christ admonishing them to do that very thing. But my honoring of my mother isn't in obedience to a law that I'm not under.

If you do not spit on the sidewalk, are you obeying the laws of New York City, Untellectual?