toldailytopic: Do the wealthy in America pay their fair share of taxes?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Even the left-wing liberal media can't buy Obama's garbage about the rich not paying their fair share.
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| WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama makes it sound as if there are millionaires all over America paying taxes at lower rates than their secretaries. "Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said Monday. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that." The data tell a different story. On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government. There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. That, however, was less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million. |
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PureX
Well-known member
It's amazing how hard some of ya'll work at not understanding.
Yes, the wealthy pay more of the total income tax.
Yes, they pay at a higher rate.
No, they do not pay as high a percentage of their income in taxes as everyone else.
The secretary pays 32% of her overall income in taxes. Her wealthy boss pays only about 25% of his overall income in taxes. So the greater tax burden is on the secretary. This is what Obama and so many others are referring to when they say that the wealthy are not paying their fair share.
It's not about the dollar amount. It's about the burden the dollar amount represents overall.
Yes, the wealthy pay more of the total income tax.
Yes, they pay at a higher rate.
No, they do not pay as high a percentage of their income in taxes as everyone else.
The secretary pays 32% of her overall income in taxes. Her wealthy boss pays only about 25% of his overall income in taxes. So the greater tax burden is on the secretary. This is what Obama and so many others are referring to when they say that the wealthy are not paying their fair share.
It's not about the dollar amount. It's about the burden the dollar amount represents overall.
drbrumley
Well-known member
As Murray Rothbard pointed out in “The Myth of Tax ‘Reform’;”: “Every economic activity that escapes taxes and controls is not only a blow for freedom and property rights; it is also one more instance of a free flow of productive energy getting out from under parasitic repression.”
PureX
Well-known member
That's just more corporate propaganda for idiots. What they are calling "economic freedom" is really just commercial lawlessness. These big corporations and their wealthy owners use our roads and sewers and power grids and law enforcement and all manner of national infrastructure, but they don't want to pay for any of it. So they demonize the government to any fool who will buy into their tripe in hopes of creating enough chaos that they can continue to do as they please, without any government oversight. And what they please to do, of course, is take everyone else's money. As much and as fast as they can.
I think people know when they're getting screwed, doc. And I think it's clear that the highway robbery we've witnessed over the last few years would've made the thugs and barons of the Gilded Age blush.
For the billionth time: you're misapplying the verse. Legislation vs. courts of law. Furthermore, you're also ignoring that you're taking this principle from a legislative code that contained provisions for a welfare state.
Alate_One
Well-known member
Gee except Politifact rates the Warren Buffet story as TRUE.
Duh the rich pay more taxes than the poor. THEY HAVE MORE MONEY! Even with a flat tax, the rich would pay more in absolute dollars because of the massive disparity in money. Federal income taxes they pay at a higher rate, problem is the super rich don't get much of their income from a W-2. Much of it comes from capital gains which is taxed at a much lower rate.
And when you count total taxes (state and local taxes are actually regressive rather than progressive) The tax burden is much flatter than pure federal income taxes would imply.
And complaining that the poor pay no taxes, they may pay no federal income taxes, but they certainly pay taxes.
drbrumley
Well-known member
This is true, I get screwed as well.....all the time. But we get screwed because this is now and has been for sometime, (before I was born) that this is a corporate state. The United States at this time is more in line with fascism. Obama talks a good game about taxing corporations, but he even knows this is more bull hockey coming from his mouth. Corporations now are more like tax collectors and they pass that added expense to you and I. Laurence Vance said it best:
He is quite right, with that, double taxation on the same dollar etc......so yeah, we get the screw job all the time. Obama has no way to get around that. Unless he is going to say corporations are not even allowed to make a profit, which case brings communism close if not here already...
I agree. It didn't come bearing a cross or a flag; it came in Nikes sipping a Coke. USA! USA!
Like every president since JFK he's an empty suit, a messenger, a middle man, a caretaker of the status quo. Their only job is simply not to screw up the program for four or eight years. That's all.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Gee except Politifact rates the Warren Buffet story as TRUE.
Duh the rich pay more taxes than the poor. THEY HAVE MORE MONEY! Even with a flat tax, the rich would pay more in absolute dollars because of the massive disparity in money. Federal income taxes they pay at a higher rate, problem is the super rich don't get much of their income from a W-2. Much of it comes from capital gains which is taxed at a much lower rate.
And when you count total taxes (state and local taxes are actually regressive rather than progressive) The tax burden is much flatter than pure federal income taxes would imply.
Average Local and state tax burden for Virginia. (Note that sales taxes are strongly regressive)
(Note that the tax rate actually drops for the highest income earners)
And complaining that the poor pay no taxes, they may pay no federal income taxes, but they certainly pay taxes.
Hey Alate, answer me this then if you will please:
Take GE as an example
First of all, what is GE’s fair share? And furthermore, what is any company’s fair share? And on the individual level, what is your fair share and my fair share? Obviously, whether GE or any corporation or individual is paying their fair share is highly subjective. Even a supporter of the corporate income tax might be willing to give GE and other large corporations a free pass since they employ so many Americans.
Second, GE did pay taxes in the United States last year, even if the company paid no corporate income tax. GE paid state and local taxes. GE paid the employer’s share of its employees Social Security and Medicare taxes. GE paid unemployment taxes on behalf of all its workers. And look at all the income and social insurance taxes that were paid by employees of GE. The more GE is able to prosper and hire more employees the more individuals there will be that are paying federal income taxes.
Third, according to GE’s Director of Financial Communications, Anne Eisele, GE “paid almost $23 billion in taxes to governments around the world from 2000 to 2009.” And last year GE filed over 7,000 tax returns in more than 250 jurisdictions around the world. And according to GE’s Vice President for Communications and Public Affairs, Gary Sheffer, “It was significant losses at GE Capital in the financial crisis, not ‘tax avoidance’ strategies, that reduced General Electric’s 2010 overall tax rate below historic levels.”
And fourth, even if one does not view taxation as theft, there is nothing wrong with “tax avoidance” strategies – for an individual or a corporation. Any and all deductions, loopholes, shelters, exemptions, and credits that can be used the better. And the more that Congress can be lobbied to come up with the merrier.
drbrumley
Well-known member
EXACTLY!!!!!!!! Like the frog in a boiling pan of water.....you can cook him as you turn the heat up nice and slow.
I would argue longer than that, but I get what your saying....
It's whatever liberals say it is, and it's never enough.
I envision these so called largehearted, politically correct, insatiably power thirsty politicians sitting in plush congressional conference rooms wondering "How much can we take before they break?"
They would be wise to heed what is happening in Middle Eastern countries wherein the people are fed up. They've had enough abuse from a small number of greedy oligarchs!
No matter what side is using what rhetoric the wealthy in this country never bear a burden the same way the have-nots do, so whatever some misled misguided liberal man on the street thinks is really beside the point.
I would say it is a point beside my point, beside your point, but, still a point and wise to reckon with it.