toldailytopic: Can a saved person lose their salvation?

[Desert Reign]

Can a saved person lose their salvation?

Salvation is a relationship with God. Relationship is a two-way thing. It depends on both parties. We know, for God's part, he is constant and faithful. For our part, all we have to do is to stay faithful. That is our part in the relationship. The rest is just theology.

 

[S0Z0]

Can a saved person lose their salvation?

Salvation is a relationship with God.

Verse?

 

[Cruciform]

Yes. A saved person can lose their salvation...if Jesus dies. Or sins. Apparently, Cruciform and I would differ on the severity of that particular risk.

Already answered (Post #29).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

Post 29 is crap. The RCC is crap.

Your completely unsubstantiated opinions are noted.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[assuranceagent]

Already answered (Post #29).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Too right. It's not Christ's nature we disagree on, it's the scope and efficacy of the cross.

 

[S0Z0]

Absolutely.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

From your link...

"Performance of good works is necessary for our salvation"

That is a false gospel, and anyone who believes that will go to hell.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

1 Tim 1:8-9
Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

 

[Cruciform]

Too right. It's not Christ's nature we disagree on, it's the scope and efficacy of the cross.

In what way, specifically...? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

From you link...

"Performance of good works is necessary for our salvation"

This is a false gospel, and anyone who believe this will go to hell.

Already answered in Post #29 itself.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[assuranceagent]

In what way, specifically...? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

In the sense that the work of salvation was complete in the death and resurrection of Christ. I can add nothing to it. My works are filthy rags. It's all Him, no me.

In Romanist estimation, we must "complete" His sufferings and contribute to the work of salvation. It's cooperative. And hopefully you're a very good helper.

Frankly, I have a hard time maintaining a high enough opinion of myself to be a catholic. :idunno:

 

[Bright Raven]

Works salvation is heretical.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[zippy2006]

In the sense that the work of salvation was complete in the death and resurrection of Christ. I can add nothing to it. My works are filthy rags. It's all Him, no me.

In Romanist estimation, we must "complete" His sufferings and contribute to the work of salvation. It's cooperative. And hopefully you're a very good helper.

Frankly, I have a hard time maintaining a high enough opinion of myself to be a catholic. :idunno:

Well, not really. But this is somewhat off topic.

An interesting fact is that, for orthodox Calvinism so far as I understand it, there is no sure-fire way to determine the Elect. Which includes yourself. So you can vote for Perseverance of the Saints but you can't say whether you are, in fully certainty, a Saint. Granted, I understand you are not necessarily a traditional Calvinist, but you would actually require a higher opinion of yourself to be one.

 

[Desert Reign]

Desert reign wrote:

Salvation is a relationship with God. Relationship is a two-way thing. It depends on both parties. We know, for God's part, he is constant and faithful. For our part, all we have to do is to stay faithful. That is our part in the relationship. The rest is just theology.

Sozo asked:

Verse?

You want verse? Here it is then:

Relationship is a two-way thing
Salvation it will surely bring
If we are steadfast, not for turning
And keep our lamps always a-burning.

 

[S0Z0]

Desert reign wrote:


Sozo asked:


You want verse? Here it is then:

Relationship is a two-way thing
Salvation it will surely bring
If we are steadfast, not for turning
And keep our lamps always a-burning.

I'd prefer a Bible verse, if you know any. Show me one that says that salvation is a relationship.

 

[assuranceagent]

Granted, I understand you are not necessarily a traditional Calvinist, but you would actually require a higher opinion of yourself to be one.

See? Works out well, doesn't it?

 

[Desert Reign]

I'd prefer a Bible verse, if you know any. Show me one that says that salvation is a relationship.

Oh, that kind of verse!

Well, there are hundreds. How about 1 John 1:3?

We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ

 

[zippy2006]

See? Works out well, doesn't it?

:chuckle:

So do you have a guaranteed way to know who is of the Elect? If not, welcome to the non-Pelagian boat, agent.

 

[S0Z0]

Oh, that kind of verse!

Well, there are hundreds. How about 1 John 1:3?

That says nothing about salvation being a relationship with God. It only says that those who have salvation have fellowship with God. Not even close to the same thing.

The problem with nearly everyone who claims to be a "Christian", is that almost none of them have a clue what salvation is. It is not a relationship with God.

 

[Desert Reign]

The problem with nearly everyone who claims to be a "Christian", ...

Other than you of course.

 

[Cruciform]

In the sense that the work of salvation was complete in the death and resurrection of Christ. I can add nothing to it.

Catholics believe this as well. None of our works add anything to the efficacy of Christ's saving atonement.

My works are filthy rags.

Yes, all of my own works, done apart from God's enabling grace, are nothing. However, good works done in and by divine grace do indeed contribute to my salvation (which, for Catholics, includes our becoming more and more like our Lord Jesus Christ) (cf. Rom. 2:6-7; 1 Cor. 15:10; Gal. 5:6; Phil. 2:12-13; Heb. 5:9).

It's all Him, no me.

Catholics agree, in the sense that any works done in and of myself and apart from divine grace are absolutely worthless.

In Romanist estimation, we must "complete" His sufferings and contribute to the work of salvation.

Incorrect. We do not contribute to the work of redemption, but only to the application of redemption. Big difference there.

It's cooperative.

Yes, in the sense that we freely respond obediently to God's grace (or not).

And hopefully you're a very good helper.

Actually, the Holy Spirit---"the Helper" sent by Christ---is a very good helper indeed.

Frankly, I have a hard time maintaining a high enough opinion of myself to be a Catholic.

How's your opinion of the Holy Spirit and divine grace? After all, "it is he who is working in us both to will and to do according to his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:12-13).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Desert Reign]

That says nothing about salvation being a relationship with God. It only says that those who have salvation have fellowship with God. Not even close to the same thing.

But I just quoted you the apostle who said that the reason he announced Jesus to them was so that they could have fellowship with him and with God and with Jesus Christ. He didn't say so that they could all be saved. He said, so that they could have fellowship. You wanted a verse. There it is.