toldailytopic: Animal cruelty. Is there such a thing? Where is the line?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 5th, 2010 08:34 AM

toldailytopic: Animal cruelty. Is there such a thing? Where is the line?

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[chrysostom]

what is really cruel
is
animals have more rights than the unborn baby

keep voting for your democrats

 

[Alate_One]

Yes.

A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.

Proverbs 12:10

As to where is the line, I think its obvious people should come first, however if it is within our capacity we should make an effort to ensure animals do not endure excessive pain and suffering. I think this is real a problem in industrialized agriculture in many cases, where cheap is the only driving force. Food safety is often compromised in these situations as well.

However, I am increasingly bothered by humane society ads asking for money to protect "helpless animals" while human beings both in the US and around the world suffer terrible conditions.

Also, if you've watched animal planet, you might notice that they "sugar coat" wild animal documentaries by cutting out anything overly violent the animals might be doing. I think its a general theme to make animals out to be somehow "better" than people.

I love animals, but I'm not opposed to using and eating them, so long as wild populations are maintained for future generations to enjoy and captive animals are given reasonable living conditions. Of course the living conditions get more difficult to provide when we get into larger and more intelligent animals . . . .

 

[grit]

Well, I'm just a big baby. I like critters, unless they're trying to suck my blood, bite off a piece of me, spray some foul-smelling stuff in my face, drop some unexpected nastiness on me from above, eat the other critters in my yard, eat up all the gardening I've diligently planted and patiently waited to bloom or fruit out, make homes for themselves in my home, are squirrely, or are spiders.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that oh, how I love all of God's creatures (well, maybe not cats either), but it says somewhars that God put the fear of man into them, and they had best keep their distance if they know what's good fer 'em (unless they decide to be my slave pet and do as I tell 'em). I still eat a few of them from time to time (well, mostly chicken and fish, since America's beef went and got all nasty on me), but I think it might be possible to eat them in a non-cruel way, as long as we don't go dressing them up in people clothes first.

My neighbour was deathly afraid of possum and snakes for some strange reason, and went and asked me to kill one of each for her, which I did. It was very traumatizing, I don't see how farmers do it with such ease (not that farmers regularly dispose of possum and snakes). I've come to the very contradictory conclusion to both spray for bugs to kill them dead, dead, dead (have you ever watched one after you spray it? It doesn't look like the calmest of deaths), as well as carefully capture a bug or critter wandering through my home and gently release it back into the wild. Oddly perhaps, I joyfully find both practices very relieving and uplifting. I am, after all, a ruler of the animal kingdom, and it's rare that others grant me such regal consideration.

 

[Aimiel]

My uncle used to keep hunting dogs. They were kept on chains, and each had it's own doghouse. He kicked and beat them, and I never liked him, or trusted him, just for that reason. His kids didn't much seem to mind, but it really bothered me. I'd say there is such a thing as cruelty to animals and the line is decided by one's own conscience. Many people have their conscience seared as if with a hot iron. :squint:

 

[Granite]

Causing undue harm or suffering pretty much sums up animal cruelty. We keep our pit crated during the day to keep her from messing the house, destroying things, and generally being a nuisance, but she always gets plenty of exercise. Some people would say crating a dog is "cruel," and I say it's sensible.

Beating a dog with a hose, allowing a horse to be trapped in its own manure, turning a cat into an ashtray...you pretty much know it when you see it.

 

[Aimiel]

I wouldn't want to be caged all day in a box only slightly larger than my body, but I wouldn't call that abuse. Many dogs would find that un-bearable or even lose their sanity in such a situation, but... abuse? No.

 

[Granite]

I wouldn't want to be caged all day in a box only slightly larger than my body, but I wouldn't call that abuse. Many dogs would find that un-bearable or even lose their sanity in such a situation, but... abuse? No.

With pits it's generally recommended you do this, anyway (at least by good trainers), although obviously this would vary from breed to breed.

Neglect, mistreatment, and outright sadism cross a line in criminal behavior that we should take very seriously.

 

[Nick M]

We keep our pit crated during the day to keep her from messing the house, destroying things, and generally being a nuisance.

That is also an easy and good way to house train a dog.

 

[elohiym]

I think it's cruel to not eat animals. :chew:

 

[Aimiel]

That is also an easy and good way to house train a dog.

The best way to get a dog house-trained is to BE: almighty. But, remember that he'll also use the facilities if he drinks too much. :chuckle:

 

[The Barbarian]

I wouldn't want to be caged all day in a box only slightly larger than my body, but I wouldn't call that abuse.

Psychologically, it isn't abuse for a dog, who is naturally inclined to den up and sleep in the day. If you let the dog out when you're home, give it lots of affection and reward it for going to the crate on command, it will not mind being there when you are gone, particularly, if you don't use the crate as a punishment. In general, it's better to crate than to make an "outside dog" of it.

 

[grit]

I'll have to admit that sometimes I cringe a little when I see a child get slapped by his mother in public. These days, the cringe probably isn't at all for the same reasons it was when I was a child. Still, the Bible does say, "spare the rod, spoil the child." Actually, it says, "I am the man who has seen affliction because of the rod of His wrath" (Lam. 3:1), "A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a rod for the back of fools" (Prov. 26:3), "I will punish their sin with the rod, their iniquity with flogging" (Prov. 89:32), "Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him" (Prov. 13:24), "A youngster's heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away" (Prov. 22:15), "Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die" (Prov. 23:13), and, "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame" (Prov. 29:15); but I'm not sure everyone today understands discipline in Bible terms regarding their children, let alone the animals.

 

[kmoney]

Yes.

A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.

Proverbs 12:10

As to where is the line, I think its obvious people should come first, however if it is within our capacity we should make an effort to ensure animals do not endure excessive pain and suffering. I think this is real a problem in industrialized agriculture in many cases, where cheap is the only driving force. Food safety is often compromised in these situations as well.

However, I am increasingly bothered by humane society ads asking for money to protect "helpless animals" while human beings both in the US and around the world suffer terrible conditions.

Also, if you've watched animal planet, you might notice that they "sugar coat" wild animal documentaries by cutting out anything overly violent the animals might be doing. I think its a general theme to make animals out to be somehow "better" than people.

I love animals, but I'm not opposed to using and eating them, so long as wild populations are maintained for future generations to enjoy and captive animals are given reasonable living conditions. Of course the living conditions get more difficult to provide when we get into larger and more intelligent animals . . . .

I agree with this for the most part. :up:

Animal cruelty definitely exists. As for where the line is, it's not a discrete thing. There might be some gray areas but in many cases it's shouldn't be too hard to tell if you are inflicting more pain than necessary.

 

[lucy]

I wouldn't want to be caged all day in a box only slightly larger than my body, but I wouldn't call that abuse. Many dogs would find that un-bearable or even lose their sanity in such a situation, but... abuse? No.

I have a chihuahua and she was crate trained this way. She loves her crate and even when I am home and she is allowed to roam about the house, sometimes she still elects to sleep in her crate most of the day. It is her little nest and haven of safety.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

My dog (a beagle/shih-tzu mutt) hates the crate. I think the pig actually likes it, or at least he's able to tolerate it a lot better.

 

[Ktoyou]

My uncle used to keep hunting dogs. They were kept on chains, and each had it's own doghouse. He kicked and beat them, and I never liked him, or trusted him, just for that reason. His kids didn't much seem to mind, but it really bothered me. I'd say there is such a thing as cruelty to animals and the line is decided by one's own conscience. Many people have their conscience seared as if with a hot iron. :squint:

Our dogs could out-hunt his anytime because they were motivated to please. You train a dog to hunt through positive reinforcement and discipline, which in turn, leads to negative reinforcement (taking away a bady).

 

[Ktoyou]

My dog (a beagle/shih-tzu mutt) hates the crate. I think the pig actually likes it, or at least he's able to tolerate it a lot better.

Pigs like feeling danger is locked out. Did you know one can train a pig like a dog? No, they cannot perform like a dog, but they will come to see themselves belonging with dogs.

 

[Ktoyou]

Causing undue harm or suffering pretty much sums up animal cruelty. We keep our pit crated during the day to keep her from messing the house, destroying things, and generally being a nuisance, but she always gets plenty of exercise. Some people would say crating a dog is "cruel," and I say it's sensible.

Beating a dog with a hose, allowing a horse to be trapped in its own manure, turning a cat into an ashtray...you pretty much know it when you see it.

Sounds like you have the wrong dog.

Yes, using animals as whipping posts is cruel and mentally abnormal.

 

[Ktoyou]

That is also an easy and good way to house train a dog.

Not nearly as effective as nipping its tail. How do I know this? Wolves do it to the pups and they never mess the den. Amazing animals.

Ok, you can pinch their tail, then take them outside where they should go and give them lots of petting, unless you what to lick them.