TOL Snapshot: Inside the Numbers

glorydaz

Well-known member
We can argue over whether that helps or hinders. I was mostly wanting to look at and answer the question of whether or not it was a few grumblers or an empirical reality.

Answered in the affirmative. And so far, in April, there have been 14 reports and an equal number of mod actions, at least when I last looked.

I guess some people would call that good. I'm not seeing it, however.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
If you don't want to get banned, don't break the rules. :idunno:
You reprimanded me for squawking about an unjustified penalty that JR leveled against me, an embarrassing mistake on his part, but now you trot out a comment like this? I didn't break any rule, and I got slapped, and that's just 666, for the literal lack of a better word. I don't hold grudges, but I do impugn systemic problems. This is a kangaroo court here. I've been penalized twice in my years here wrongly, this one the most recent, and in neither case is there any due process. For someone who's legitimately innocent but with no way to defend myself, the taste in my mouth is sour, and I abode by your counsel in this matter, until now, because of this post. I never broke a single rule here, but I've been harassed by 'the police' twice, and that's 666, that there's no restitution for me. Mistakes are made, that's not the problem, the problem is no due process. It's a kangaroo court. Because I'd like to say that all you have to do is abide by the rules, but that literally does not work on TOL. And I volunteered to be a mod at the same time that JR did, but of course JR's both more active, and ... well, and a dispie. I know it's not required, but I also know that my theology bristles many users here, and dispies only bristle users who disagree with Dispensationalism.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I guess some people would call that good. I'm not seeing it, however.
I don't think it's good. I think it's 666. It's fine to have a 'law and order' mod, but when he gets it wrong, there's no way to make that right. That's 666, and we can do better. There's no way that a youngster like JR should wield this power without any way for us to defend ourselves against injustice.

Why aren't you interested in moderating? You'd be great. I'd vote for you, if you ran.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You reprimanded me for squawking about an unjustified penalty that JR leveled against me, an embarrassing mistake on his part, but now you trot out a comment like this? I didn't break any rule, and I got slapped, and that's just 666, for the literal lack of a better word. I don't hold grudges, but I do impugn systemic problems. This is a kangaroo court here. I've been penalized twice in my years here wrongly, this one the most recent, and in neither case is there any due process. For someone who's legitimately innocent but with no way to defend myself, the taste in my mouth is sour, and I abode by your counsel in this matter, until now, because of this post. I never broke a single rule here, but I've been harassed by 'the police' twice, and that's 666, that there's no restitution for me. Mistakes are made, that's not the problem, the problem is no due process. It's a kangaroo court. Because I'd like to say that all you have to do is abide by the rules, but that literally does not work on TOL. And I volunteered to be a mod at the same time that JR did, but of course JR's both more active, and ... well, and a dispie. I know it's not required, but I also know that my theology bristles many users here, and dispies only bristle users who disagree with Dispensationalism.

You see what you just did there, by being honest and voicing a legitimate complaint, COULD and very well MAY be deemed disrespecting a mod. You were unfairly accused of blasphemy or something, as I recall, and by saying that I COULD and very well MAY be accused of disrespecting a mod. That's the problem with a dictatorship. If we lived in Cuba, I could understand it, but this is our beloved TOL. Well, it was, anyway....:sigh:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I don't think it's good. I think it's 666. It's fine to have a 'law and order' mod, but when he gets it wrong, there's no way to make that right. That's 666, and we can do better. There's no way that a youngster like JR should wield this power without any way for us to defend ourselves against injustice.

Why aren't you interested in moderating? You'd be great. I'd vote for you, if you ran.

That's proving to be true. Unfortunately, we don't get to vote. We don't have a say at all. Heck, if I were to vote, I'd vote for Stripe, or Town, or Artie. As it is, I'll be red before the sun comes up tomorrow, because this kind of discussion is probably forbidden here now. :surf:
 
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Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You reprimanded me for squawking about an unjustified penalty that JR leveled against me, an embarrassing mistake on his part, but now you trot out a comment like this? I didn't break any rule, and I got slapped, and that's just 666, for the literal lack of a better word. I don't hold grudges, but I do impugn systemic problems. This is a kangaroo court here. I've been penalized twice in my years here wrongly, this one the most recent, and in neither case is there any due process. For someone who's legitimately innocent but with no way to defend myself, the taste in my mouth is sour, and I abode by your counsel in this matter, until now, because of this post. I never broke a single rule here, but I've been harassed by 'the police' twice, and that's 666, that there's no restitution for me. Mistakes are made, that's not the problem, the problem is no due process. It's a kangaroo court. Because I'd like to say that all you have to do is abide by the rules, but that literally does not work on TOL. And I volunteered to be a mod at the same time that JR did, but of course JR's both more active, and ... well, and a dispie. I know it's not required, but I also know that my theology bristles many users here, and dispies only bristle users who disagree with Dispensationalism.
I also said I'd start teasing you if you didn't stop whining. :)
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
If you don't want to get banned, don't break the rules. :idunno:
Sure, but I think it's a little like holding in the NFL. If refs called every foul they could call by rule you'd spend more of the time watching the zebras than you would the game. That's a good way to lower viewers...and the boom.

64% of the reports being acted upon? The membership hasn't gotten that much of anything right since they filled out their membership information.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
He was more of a letter than spirit reporter. I suspect either he'll learn to lean into the spirit of the thing more or it's going to be progressively quieter around here.

If implementation of the letter begets bad things, the rules are at fault, not the mod.

People are not justified in appealing to the "spirit" if they disrespect the "letter."
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
If implementation of the letter begets bad things, the rules are at fault, not the mod.

People are not justified in appealing to the "spirit" if they disrespect the "letter."
It's one argument. But maybe the rules have always been meant to be coupled with an understanding that the guy rushing his wife to the emergency room isn't the same as the guy seeing what his new Mustang will do for fun. That is, we can allow for discretion and mitigation and tend to, in part because the alternative is trying to imagine and write in every possible exception would turn the whole thing into an unworkable mess.

I'm not someone who has run afoul of either spirit or letter, have no personal reason to complain and I'm just noting that it's gotten problematic of late, historically so, and that the problem may well be found in the difference between what can be done and applying restraint on applying restraints.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
It's one argument.
But this isn't.

This is a throwaway line typically used to diminish an idea a man doesn't like, but doesn't want to address.

But maybe the rules have always been meant to be coupled with an understanding that the guy rushing his wife to the emergency room isn't the same as the guy seeing what his new Mustang will do for fun.
We don't need to talk about the wording of rules from elsewhere; we have the ones under the spotlight.

That is, we can allow for discretion and mitigation and tend to, in part because the alternative is trying to imagine and write in every possible exception would turn the whole thing into an unworkable mess.

This is an expression of the great revelation of the nature of the law, ie, it can never solve our problems.

However, this does not address the issue: What would make good letters for TOL's "guidelines"?

I'm not someone who has run afoul of either spirit or letter.

That's a bold claim. :think:

I'm just noting that it's gotten problematic of late, historically so, and that the problem may well be found in the difference between what can be done and applying restraint on applying restraints.

Where I come from, the dude who complains about the ref gets made to wear the whistle. :up:
 
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glorydaz

Well-known member
Sure, but I think it's a little like holding in the NFL. If refs called every foul they could call by rule you'd spend more of the time watching the zebras than you would the game.

I have a more accurate analogy. Have you ever watched a wrestling match and had one of the wrestlers jump up and put on his ref hat to make a call against his opponent? We're seeing it.
 
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glorydaz

Well-known member
If implementation of the letter begets bad things, the rules are at fault, not the mod.

People are not justified in appealing to the "spirit" if they disrespect the "letter."

That would be true if the rules were fairly applied.

Provoking, for instance, is in the eye of the beholder.

Done by a friend, it's applauded.
Done by anyone responding to said friend, it's an infraction or a demand to "Knock it off".
 
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