Time travel?

[Mocking You]

Are you talking about how when you move faster, you experience change at a slower rate?

What?? If you are moving faster you don't experience change at a slower rate. You are in your own frame of reference with no comparison to outside influences. You experience change as it occurs in normal time.

I'm talking about the fact that the closer you bring a clock to a gravity source the slower it runs.

And how do you propose to measure time? With clocks? What about this time dilation thing you have going on here. This is hardly reliable. By the way, can you tell me what my specific co-ordinates are in time?

Yes, clocks are used to measure time! Sheesh.

I could tell you what your time coordinate is but I would need to know what kind of clock you are using. Right now it is 8:58 am, CDT.

 

[Mocking You]

In case you didn't notice. I agree 100% that experiencing change slower does not mean time travel. I agree that the faster you go the slower you change. I said as much in my previous post.

Which is wrong. I think you've got the wrong interpretation of the famous "Twins paradox". That is, take two identical twins aged 30 years old. Put one in a spacecraft traveling at or near the speed of light. This astronaut travels around the galaxy for a month or so (according to clocks on his spaceship) and eventually returns to Earth. Upon disembarking the ship his twin brother greets him and there is now a huge age difference between them--the brother that was left on Earth has visibly aged whereas the space traveling brother is only a month older.

Relative time is not altered at all. It is the rate of change that is altered. They are not the same thing. If you were able to observe someone travelling much faster than you. He would appear to be moving slower.

Absolutely wrong!

 

[Caledvwlch]

Do you think time travel will ever be possible?

Seems unlikely, in the Marty McFly sense.

Fun to think about though.

 

[Kdall]

In case you didn't notice. I agree 100% that experiencing change slower does not mean time travel. I agree that the faster you go the slower you change. I said as much in my previous post.



Why don't you go look it up. You are saying that Einstein said a lot about time travel but I don't really know what it was he said.



Relative time is not altered at all. It is the rate of change that is altered. They are not the same thing. If you were able to observe someone travelling much faster than you. He would appear to be moving slower.

Your last paragraph describes relative time experiential difference. Relative time is how one experiences time as opposed to how someone else would. As you mention, at very high velocity, one's relative time is experienced more slowly than another who is still.

I saw you post earlier that time dilation has never been observed. That's horribly inaccurate. I mentioned the airplane clock examole in my previous post, but another would be GPS satellites' clocks constantly needing to be reset due to the slower passage of time relative to the satellites that reults from their high velocity orbit. The satellites age more slowly than one lying on the ground on Earth

 

[Stripe]

Gravity doesn't affect time; it affects clocks.

 

[Mocking You]

Gravity doesn't affect time; it affects clocks.

And the difference, is, what exactly?

 

[Aimiel]

John travelled to the future...

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

He wasn't watching a video. He was there. I've been to the future: Jesus is victorious. :thumb:

 

[Nick M]

And the difference, is, what exactly?

According to morons, bending a tape measure changed the distance of a meter. Just like gravity affecting clocks to make them slower, time didn't change. And a meter didn't bend when the device to measure the meter bent.

Time is absolute in the Bible, therefore the heathen want time travel possible.

 

[Aimiel]

I believe the ultimate proof of God being time-transcendent is demonstrated quite clearly by the statement of When He is (when Moses asked Him Whom He is): "I am." God stands upon the circle of the earth, which is time. To Him all of His creation is but a mere speck of dust, motionless. He stands WAY above all.

 

[Ktoyou]

Wouldn't that mean that if you went to the future, you are stuck there?
Or could you return?
If you could return, then you have also traveled to the past.

Maybe the question to consider, if you could return, would it possibly effect the freedom of others?

 

[Stripe]

And the difference, is, what exactly?

Clocks are physical items. Physics can affect them.

Time is an abstract notion. Physics cannot affect abstract notions.

 

[TIPlatypus]

What?? If you are moving faster you don't experience change at a slower rate. You are in your own frame of reference with no comparison to outside influences. You experience change as it occurs in normal time.

You are contradicting yourself.
You say that you are in your own frame of reference. So how do we tell what the time difference is between someone who has gone on a long trip and come back hardly aged. There is a comparison to an outside influence right there. Then you say that you experience change as it occurs in normal time. So here is a frame of reference.
This does not make sense either. You have not said what normal time is. I would say that there is no such thing as "normal time".

I'm talking about the fact that the closer you bring a clock to a gravity source the slower it runs.

I'm not. I'm not a physicist so I don't really know what the difference is between being closer to gravity and travelling faster. It sounds like the same effect though. Could be wrong.

Yes, clocks are used to measure time! Sheesh.

I could tell you what your time coordinate is but I would need to know what kind of clock you are using. Right now it is 8:58 am, CDT.

So what kind of clock I am using depends on what my co-ordinate in time is? That does not make sense.

Then you say "Right now it is 8:58 am, CDT". Are you serious? Right now my co-ordinate in time is right now. Get it. I assure you that right now it is not 8:58 am, CDT.

 

[TIPlatypus]

Which is wrong. I think you've got the wrong interpretation of the famous "Twins paradox". That is, take two identical twins aged 30 years old. Put one in a spacecraft traveling at or near the speed of light. This astronaut travels around the galaxy for a month or so (according to clocks on his spaceship) and eventually returns to Earth. Upon disembarking the ship his twin brother greets him and there is now a huge age difference between them--the brother that was left on Earth has visibly aged whereas the space traveling brother is only a month older.

But that is what I am saying. What do you think I am saying? I am not arguing with that.

Relative time is not altered at all. It is the rate of change that is altered. They are not the same thing. If you were able to observe someone travelling much faster than you. He would appear to be moving slower.

Absolutely wrong!

Why?

 

[TIPlatypus]

Your last paragraph describes relative time experiential difference. Relative time is how one experiences time as opposed to how someone else would. As you mention, at very high velocity, one's relative time is experienced more slowly than another who is still.

Hey, we are all in the same universe. All what happens when I move in a spaceship close to the speed of light, is that I move around the spaceship much slower compared to someone else standing still, and I think much slower than someone else standing still. The effect may be the same as what you are describing but this explanation is simpler and more useful, and makes perfect sense, and it is an explanation of our scientific discoveries which works.

I saw you post earlier that time dilation has never been observed. That's horribly inaccurate. I mentioned the airplane clock examole in my previous post, but another would be GPS satellites' clocks constantly needing to be reset due to the slower passage of time relative to the satellites that reults from their high velocity orbit. The satellites age more slowly than one lying on the ground on Earth

I never said that. And I agree with the rest of what you said. I do not understand why you think I disagree with that.

 

[TIPlatypus]

On a side note. I do not think either Mocking You or Kdall are wrong because of science. My explanation also works because of the science, as do yours.

It is really that the common definition for what time actually is is very inadequate and has many fallacies. Clocks do not measure time. We do not observe time. We observe change. Clocks measure change. Time is some whishy whashy idea that everything moves along a straight line in some fourth dimension which we can't really see. Change is something concrete: easily observable in everyday life.

 

[TIPlatypus]

Maybe the question to consider, if you could return, would it possibly effect the freedom of others?

If you could travel to the future. Then you are now part of the future. This means that the future is now perfectly predictable, seeing as it is possible to go there and know what is going to happen. This definitely would affect the freedom of others.

If you could travel to the past, then in a similar way the future (which you came from) is fixed. This would also limit everyone's freedom. Completely. It would mean that everything is already predetermined and any decisions we make are pointless.

 

[Kdall]

I never said that. And I agree with the rest of what you said. I do not understand why you think I disagree with that.

My mistake. I misunderstood you clearly

 

[TomO]

I believe the ultimate proof of God being time-transcendent is demonstrated quite clearly by the statement of When He is (when Moses asked Him Whom He is): "I am." God stands upon the circle of the earth, which is time. To Him all of His creation is but a mere speck of dust, motionless. He stands WAY above all.

I was wondering when someone would get around to this. lain:

 

[PureX]

To us, existence is an event taking place. It is a phenomena happening in time and space. For us to time-travel, we would have to be able to 'leave' that space-time and re-enter it before or after the point at which we left it. Not only is this impossible for us to do by any means we can currently imagine, but if we could do it, it would pose some difficult dilemmas in term of the effect of doing it.

It's not possible to say that it's not possible. Because there is so much we don't know. But clearly, we can say that it's not possible by anything we do know.