ECT Tim Staples: The Case for Mary’s Perpetual Virginity

Catholic Crusader

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Origen - A.D. 248

"The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity" (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).
 

CabinetMaker

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Origen - A.D. 248

"The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity" (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).
Why do you think sex is such a vile thing? God created it so it is good. The Song of Solomon is the bibles sex manual where God teaches us to enjoy our spouses deeply. Why are Catholics so wrapped up it? She was a young woman and there is no inherent grace in remaking celibate.
 

HisServant

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Why do you think sex is such a vile thing? God created it so it is good. The Song of Solomon is the bibles sex manual where God teaches us to enjoy our spouses deeply. Why are Catholics so wrapped up it? She was a young woman and there is no inherent grace in remaking celibate.

Because some of the early Romanist writers were converts from Stoicism (like Augustine) that viewed sex as evil.

There is nothing evil about sex at all if confined to the bounds of marriage... in fact, as a Jew, it was REQUIRED of husbands and wives to bear children... to not do so would incur the wrath of God.
 

CabinetMaker

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You've proven nothing with this comment. Provide an excerpt. A cite.
A cite is worthless. Attending a service would be far more enlightening.
If that's what you meant by "elevate her to positions that rival Jesus and God," then you have quite a flair for the dramatic. Quite an exaggerator.
I've read more than I ever should have. I've wasted my time reading Protestant theology. The only thing it got me was a very deep understanding of the depth of the Protestants' misunderstanding.
Misunderstanding of what exactly? Catholic dogma or the Bible? Think about your back ground, your biases, before you answer.
Yes, Protestants do disregard the Apostles. To Protestants, the Apostles are only some of the New Testament authors, but not all New Testament books were written by Apostles, but that fact stands there in Protestant imagination without justification. What justification is there for the books of Mark, Luke, Acts and James for being in the Scripture? How did they get there? They're not Apostolic books. Why are they in the Bible?
They are in the Bible because God wanted them to be. It is the utmost human arrogance to assume that they are responsible for putting together the Canon of scripture. Protestants always look to Scripture first and to Scripture to test all things. We have faith that that is why God gave us Scripture and we trust that above any extra biblical writings.

The answer is that the Apostles exercised their authority over the Church. The Apostles said what was Scripture, and they also said that the Church would be hierarchical, and that all the pastors shall all agree in matters of faith, doctrine and morals (on pain of excommunication). They taught the Christian faith, definitively, authoritatively, and both in writing, and by word-of-mouth. In the Scripture itself we see the Apostles passing on their authority, to hand-picked men, who had the authority to pass on this authority themselves, thus establishing Apostolic succession. We have secular and sacred evidence for this very early practice.
Yet Peter and Paul nearly came to blows over matters faith so disagreement can exist within the Body of Christ without damaging the body. The Body of Christ today is comprised of many different sects of which Roman Catholicism is but one. The individual churches do not derive their authority from hand me downs, they receive their authority from Christ. We teach our pasters who inturn teach the next generation of pastors so succession continues.

Protestants don't even know that, let alone "regard" the Apostles. They're nobodies in Protestant-land. And that's why it's no surprise that Protestants also disregard the Blessed Virgin, as it makes just as little sense as their disregard for the Apostles.
I have no idea where you get this rather goofy idea that Protestant disregard the Apostles. It is just plain silly. Protestants follow the Apostles teachings. That is what Luther was trying to say all those years ago to the Magisterium - go back to what the Apostles actually taught.
That's right! And what they taught was Apostolic succession. Orders.
And Protestants have succession. It does not follow RCC dogma, but it does follow the Biblical tenants of gathering in the name of Christ, anointing leaders and sending them forth in His name.
Yes, I know. Except that what you call "good protestant churches" are otherwise known as "Holy Catholic parishes."
Catholic only in so far as catholic means universal, i.e. Body of Christ.
True.
Sigh. Apostolic succession. What the Holy Catholic pastors universally teach about the Mother of God is what the Church has believed about her since the beginning. It comes from the Apostles. This is regarding the Apostles. Rejecting everything that raking over the New Testament with a fine-toothed comb doesn't turn up, is disregarding them. Protestant hermeneutic is no different from if the Apostles never really existed. And same thing with Mary.

The saddest thing about the Marion doctrines is that you CANNOT support them using the things that Jesus and His Apostles actually said as recorded in scripture. Sure, the RCC has always believed these things, it doesn't make them right or true. You and Cruciform and other Romanists on this site only ever discuss succession and Mary and how wonderful the RCC is. Never once do you ever discuss what Jesus has done for you and why others should turn to Christ. Its always about why others should join your church. Your church is so focused on Apostolic accession and Mary that there is no room left for Jesus save a few minutes a week during the reading of the Gospel and the Eucharist.
 

CabinetMaker

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Whenever this discussion arises it always leaves me wondering why the RCC has developed such a detailed dogma centered on Mary. God sent His Son to die for the us and redeem us to Himself. Jesus did these things. What difference does it make if Mary was a perpetual virgin or not? Is Jesus's sacrifice somehow diminished if Mary had other children? Are His teachings about loving and serving each other invalid if Mary had other children. Of what real benefit is it to Christ's work to have Mary as a perpetual virgin?

There is one story in scripture that is very interesting if one assumes Mary were ever virgin. It is the story of Joseph and Mary taking Jesus to town for a festival. When they headed home they realized that Jesus was not with them and the searched for Him for three days before finding Him in His Father's temple. If Jesus was an only child, how in the world did Mary and Joseph manage to leave the festival without realizing their only son was missing? The story makes more sense if Mary and Joseph were caring for younger siblings.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
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......There is nothing evil about sex at all if confined to the bounds of marriage... ....
Nobody ever said there was! For the love of God man, can you stop being an imbecile for just one day!

Obviously, you have not been introduced to "Truth." In fact, you've never even caught a glimpse of it.
Another pinheaded post, long on accusation but devoid of any facts.
 

john w

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Psalm 69:8 KJV I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

EOT. DOA. RIP.


Wicked Catholicism....A scam....
 

john w

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When you was a Roman, saint john, and bowed down to dumb statues, deep down in your conscience didn't you know that it was filthy idolatry?

I suspected, Mayor, that "something was wrong," especially when, at grade school, during this depressing "Lent" period, we went through that "stations of the Cross" made up ritual, that was really a downer, not "good news," and made out this "Jesus" to be an unwilling victim. It's a religion of death, mysticism, and idolatry. I can still smell that disgusting incense, permeating the "church."
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
I suspected, Mayor, that "something was wrong," especially when, at grade school, during this depressing "Lent" period, we went through that "stations of the Cross" made up ritual, that was really a downer, not "good news," and made out this "Jesus" to be an unwilling victim. It's a religion of death, mysticism, and idolatry. I can still smell that disgusting incense, permeating the "church."

How did you feel about them keeping him nailed to a stick, when up from the grave he arose, he arose?

Did they ever persuade you to pray to a "baby Jesus" doll?
 

john w

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How did you feel about them keeping him nailed to a stick, when up from the grave he arose, he arose?

Did they ever persuade you to pray to a "baby Jesus" doll?

Creepy, Mayor....They keep him nailed, as a victim, and, every day, allegedly bring Him down from heaven, to be "re-sacrificed," in an "un bloody sacrifice," know as this "mass," another form of mysticism, Buddhism, and idolatry.

I did not have a "baby Jesus" doll, but my rosary beads were as shiny as anyone's. Wonder if them chantin' beads can make a pope mobile accelerate from 0-60 in 5 seconds?
 

john w

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That's another lie, one of your many lies. The subject will be good for another thread.

The old reliable "That's a lie....You don't understand Catholicism...We are misunderstood...." Catholic ploy/dodge/spin/deceit, "Hail Mary."

Made up. I know the Roman Catholic Organization, including this "mass" abomination, better than most Catholics, and certainly better than you, shill, having spent 41+ years in that prison, and having studied it since 1998.


Take your seat, as you are not qualified to weigh in, much less teach, on the subject.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The old reliable "That's a lie....You don't understand Catholicism...We are misunderstood...." Catholic ploy/dodge/spin/deceit, "Hail Mary."

Made up. I know the Roman Catholic Organization, including this "mass" abomination, better than most Catholics, and certainly better than you, shill, having spent 41+ years in that prison, and having studied it since 1998.


Take your seat, as you are not qualified to weigh in, much less teach, on the subject.

Is it true that Ain't Bea was also a perpetual virgin?
 
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