andyc
New member
I believe the gospel of grace, but every madist here rejects me, as they would also reject your pastor buddy.
You are wrong. Defy mad, and the mads say you aren't saved. Simple as that.
ECT This should end the discussion about easy grace and OSAS!
- Thread starter ZacharyB
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I believe the gospel of grace, but every madist here rejects me, as they would also reject your pastor buddy.
You are wrong. Defy mad, and the mads say you aren't saved. Simple as that.
Okay, great, so why do we see so many warnings in the NT, such as:
"Dearly beloved brethren, sin results in (eternal) death!"
Since the Lord doesn't go around killin' believers for sinning
(habitually or otherwise) ... this must refer to eternal death!
But, el Tottster has insisted that these verses must mean another type of death.
Sure, but ONE of the conditions is:
This faith unto salvation (eternal life) must continue until death!
So, this little item all by it's little ole self trashes OSAS.
And so do several other items.
Jude says the grace-only people are apostates!
Simple as that.
And James and Peter agree with him ... more comin' later about this.
andyc
New member
Obviously a person must always remain in faith, because we are saved by grace through faith. When a believer rejects faith from their heart, they are lost forever with no possibility of being re-saved.
There is no such thing as being saved, lost, repent, saved, lost, repent, saved, lost, repent, saved. Salvation means to become the righteousness of God in spirit, in order to receive a spiritual kingdom as heirs of God,, and joint heirs with Christ. This state can never change unless faith is rejected. Righteousness in spirit is a once only situation, and if this is rejected, it results in eternal rejection.
Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
The Hebrews writer here is going out of his way to describe a person who has been born again, and to show that surely such a person could never fall away, especially after experiencing the power of salvation and the goodness of the word of God, but yes they can turn to apostasy, and it is impossible to return.
2 Timothy 2:12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.
To deny him, means to no longer believe.
Colossians 1:21-23
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
And so here we see that our reconciliation depends on us continuing in faith.
Romans 11:19-22
You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Once again faith is the condition. Unbelief leads to being cut off.
2 Peter 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pet 2:20-22
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
If OSAS is true, then Peter would wrong to say that it would be better if people never knew Jesus, and then to turn away, as they would still be saved even if they turned away. Obviously to turn away means to turn their back on Christ, and so be a lost soul permanently.
andyc
New member
Grace only and faith only are imbalanced views.
God provides salvation by grace, and we appropriate it by faith.
Grace only people use grace as an excuses for living a carnal lifestyle.
Faith only people believe God is pleased or displeased with them based on their performance.
I'll explain. Mary got pregnant and Joseph knew it wasn't by him. Joseph suspected infidelity which is a basis for terminating a marriage.
Jesus said, "I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery." (Matthew 5:32 NKJV)
So you are not now transferred into the Kingdom of God?
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
LA
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Why do you not believe the words of Jesus?
LA
1 Corinthians 1
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
At least I am no longer suspicious of your fake conversion. Thank you for confirming it and coming out of the closet so soon.
way 2 go
Well-known member
we grace people have good company ,Paul was accused of the same thing
Rom 3:7 For if in my lie the truth has more abounded to His glory why am I still judged as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And not rather, (as we are wrongly accused, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do bad things that good may come? Their condemnation is just.
musterion
Well-known member
Gonna try this one last time.
If God Himself says a person died with Christ and is dead to the condemning Law...even though that person has not personally experienced physical death...are we to take Him at His Word, or are we to try to explain it away in some nonliteral fashion?
Hi and when are you going to be serious about disscussion , so explain Eph 2:8 !!:rotfl::rotfl:
Let's do it , IF you can ??
dan p
Why did Paul say that they should reckon it so, if it was actually so.
Do you sin?
LA
This is the lead-in to an excellent post.
we are saved by grace through faith
What the apostates have not realized is:
-- this faith includes obedience to Jesus' commandments
-- this faith must endure until death
The NT clearly teaches ...
True belief >> Saving faith through God's grace >> Obedience >> Endurance