This lawyer's headed for hell.

[ok doser]

The Criminal Courts are as important a part of our society as the sewer and water system. The Prosecutors and Public Defenders are our employees. It's not right to say you're OK with the water dept. but you have contempt for the sewer dept. It's two sides of the same coin, both jobs that must be done by somebody.

i'm not familiar with any sewer workers who claim that the object of their work is to provide clean water :idunno:

 

[fool]

i'm not familiar with any sewer workers who claim that the object of their work is to provide clean water :idunno:

Imagine your kitchen sink, it has a faucet and a drain. Without both you don't have a working sink.
The sewer worker provides a clean environment by giving you a drain to put things down instead of throwing them into the street and waiting for the rain to wash them away.

 

[ok doser]

The sewer worker provides a clean environment by giving you a drain to put things down instead of throwing them into the street and waiting for the rain to wash them away.

right, but he doesn't lie about what he's working with


the sewer worker doesn't stand up in court and say "the stuff running through my sewer is clean clear water"


because the sewer worker knows that would be lying

and the sewer worker knows that lying is wrong

 

[fool]

right, but he doesn't lie about what he's working with


the sewer worker doesn't stand up in court and say "the stuff running through my sewer is clean clear water"


because the sewer worker knows that would be lying

and the sewer worker knows that lying is wrong

That's why Lawyers always say stuff like "My client maintains his innocence."

 

[Town Heretic]

That's why Lawyers always say stuff like "My client maintains his innocence."

You can't actually, knowingly allow your client to commit perjury, which is another reason an experienced lawyer isn't interested in asking his client about his or her guilt.

One thing I thought I recalled the lawyer in the Tucker interview saying that had me shaking my head was something about his interest in getting to the truth. His job isn't about getting to the truth of the matter. His job is defending his client within the bounds of the ethically permissible, about (in serious matters) creating a reasonable doubt in the mind of the jury or judge and advancing the presumption of innocence. The prosecutor's job isn't to get to the truth either. It's to prosecute an individual within those same bounds where the office has determined a likelihood of the charged having committed the offense. A great deal of the time it's impossible to be certain, only reasonably and sufficiently certain to lay charges. The jury or judge has the job to arrive at the truth, having heard the best arguments and reading of the evidence possible by those charged to present and examine it and having heard the testimonies of those who have something to say that satisfies the rules of procedure as to relevance.

 

[ok doser]

... an experienced lawyer isn't interested in asking his client about his or her guilt....

hence:

lawyers are inherently amoral**

**which makes them, in general, disgusting scumbags who should be fed into wood chippers

 

[Ktoyou]

The job of the defense attorney is to protect the rights of his client within proscribed ethical boundaries established in canon. The job of the prosecuting attorney is to pursue conviction within the measure of the law and canon.

TH is right. The job of the defense lawyer is to stand in front of the cannon

 

[ok doser]

pass me that linstock, willya?











(just finished watching the siege of Harfleur scene in Henry V )

 

[Town Heretic]

TH is right. The job of the defense lawyer is to stand in front of the cannon

Oh yeah, well...:chuckle: Go shrink your own head.

 

[intojoy]

The job of the defense attorney is to protect the rights of his client within proscribed ethical boundaries established in canon. The job of the prosecuting attorney is to pursue conviction within the measure of the law and canon. The job of the judge is to see that due process is served and/or to decide the facts of the case if no jury is empanelled. Else, his job will be to preside over that process, to keep the lawyers within bounds and to explain to a jury of peers, who will sit in judgment on the facts, their obligations before the law.

When everyone in that process does their jobs justice will likely be served. The lawyer's only mistake was to appear on Tucker's show. To say the lawyer is hell bound is just irresponsible nonsense. To say you're not glad that lawyers exist is simply to propound an ignorant bias.

But that's your right. A right framed by and protected by the people you don't like. Go figure.

Lmao: their job is to make money.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Town Heretic]

Lmao: their job is to make money.

That's a lot of laughing.

Anyway, most people work to make money. But there are large numbers of lawyers who make a very modest living helping the poor and a larger number of lawyers who provide free legal assistance every year as a public service. How many people out there go to work for free, just to help the other guy? How often do you do your job for free to help people?

Go laugh at that.

 

[intojoy]

That's a lot of laughing.

Anyway, most people work to make money. But there are large numbers of lawyers who make a very modest living helping the poor and a larger number of lawyers who provide free legal assistance every year as a public service. How many people out there go to work for free, just to help the other guy? How often do you do your job for free to help people?

Go laugh at that.

I agree. Just that you can use your valid points to appropriate to that guy (I didn't watch the clip). Most people are not how you described yourself and your peers. There are good and bad in all walks. People just hate on lawyers because they assume they make a lot of money? I wish I had an ability to become a trial lawyer. I think that would be fun and rewarding. Anyways, you know what I mean. We can't trust anyone that does anything to be competent at any given moment. Sometimes people, doctors, lawyers, others get distracted in life. I think people should always give others the grace to do their job without judging them. And then try to bs them into liking me so they'll not get distracted and want to help!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Town Heretic]

I agree. Just that you can use your valid points to appropriate to that guy (I didn't watch the clip).

I think the lawyer in the video said he was retained by the family. If so, he's not doing it pro bono, though he may be defending for a reduced fee or on the modest government stipend allotted if the client is indigent.

Most people are not how you described yourself and your peers.

I'd agree. Outside of doctors, there's no profession that I know of that routinely gives as much free labor for the public good as lawyers do. The Bar doesn't require it, but they do keep track and our journal lists the lawyers and firms that donated their efforts each year. I was always happy to see a pretty deep list each time they summed it.

There are good and bad in all walks. People just hate on lawyers because they assume they make a lot of money?

The average lawyer makes in the neighborhood of a hundred grand a year. The scramblers from poor schools without connections probably make half that. The better and better connected make significantly more and I know personal injury lawyers who make millions. If you go into representation of the poor you're going to make school teacher wages that won't touch your debt load, so you won't be able to do it for more than five or ten years, but it's rewarding as heck.

So it's a mixed bag, but on average they do better than most people. And they have real power within the system. That combination doesn't invite public sympathy. I only gave you a shot across the bow because a) everyone works for money, so why would it be a shame for lawyers? and b) unlike most everyone else, we give our labor away to help people, regularly. And the biggest firms are always among those participating.

I wish I had an ability to become a trial lawyer. I think that would be fun and rewarding.

It's not Law and Order. Trial work is mostly procedure and negotiating. When it's not it's a lot of strategy and work getting ready for the trial that likely won't come because the weaker side will almost always play the late hour card and take the best available deal on the table. When you actually do go to trial and have to romance a jury it's interesting. Mostly it's motion filing and negotiations while you wade through a sea of postponements and resets.

Anyways, you know what I mean. We can't trust anyone that does anything to be competent at any given moment. Sometimes people, doctors, lawyers, others get distracted in life. I think people should always give others the grace to do their job without judging them. And then try to bs them into liking me so they'll not get distracted and want to help!

:chuckle: It's a plan.

 

[intojoy]

I think the lawyer in the video said he was retained by the family. If so, he's not doing it pro bono, though he may be defending for a reduced fee or on the modest government stipend allotted if the client is indigent.


I'd agree. Outside of doctors, there's no profession that I know of that routinely gives as much free labor for the public good as lawyers do. The Bar doesn't require it, but they do keep track and our journal lists the lawyers and firms that donated their efforts each year. I was always happy to see a pretty deep list each time they summed it.

The average lawyer makes in the neighborhood of a hundred grand a year. The scramblers from poor schools without connections probably make half that. The better and better connected make significantly more and I know personal injury lawyers who make millions. If you go into representation of the poor you're going to make school teacher wages that won't touch your debt load, so you won't be able to do it for more than five or ten years, but it's rewarding as heck.

So it's a mixed bag, but on average they do better than most people. And they have real power within the system. That combination doesn't invite public sympathy. I only gave you a shot across the bow because a) everyone works for money, so why would it be a shame for lawyers? and b) unlike most everyone else, we give our labor away to help people, regularly. And the biggest firms are always among those participating.


It's not Law and Order. Trial work is mostly procedure and negotiating. When it's not it's a lot of strategy and work getting ready for the trial that likely won't come because the weaker side will almost always play the late hour card and take the best available deal on the table. When you actually do go to trial and have to romance a jury it's interesting. Mostly it's motion filing and negotiations while you wade through a sea of postponements and resets.

:chuckle: It's a plan.

I've worked with 4-5 lawyers in my life. I liked every one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

TH is right. The job of the defense lawyer is to stand in front of the cannon

Good post. Funny.

 

[Stripe]

True justice would be for the victim to be put in exactly the place and state they would have found themselves but for the actions of the wrong doer.

Nope. Justice has little to do with the victim. It is about giving the perpetrators what they deserves.

Justice is possible. Returning the victim to her pre-rape state is impossible.

Justice would have seen the two perpetrators dead already.

Sent from my SM-G9250 using TOL mobile app

 

[JudgeRightly]

The job of the defense attorney is to protect the rights of his client within proscribed ethical boundaries established in canon. The job of the prosecuting attorney is to pursue conviction within the measure of the law and canon.

If we had an actual "Justice" system, we wouldn't need either of them.

The job of the judge is to see that due process is served and/or to decide the facts of the case if no jury is empanelled. Else, his job will be to preside over that process, to keep the lawyers within bounds and to explain to a jury of peers, who will sit in judgment on the facts, their obligations before the law.

Yet case after case we see that "justice" is rarely served, only a cheap imitation of it.

Juries are also not needed in an actual Justice system. They make it so that no one is held accountable for their decision, meaning no one is obligated to make a good decision.

When everyone in that process does their jobs justice will likely be served.

When everyone does their jobs in the just-a-system we have, justice comes at random, and victory is random for either side.

For example:

- OJ Simpson
- Scott Peterson
- Bill Clinton
- And many others.

"Justice is incidental to law and order" - J. Edgar Hoover
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer" - Robert Frost

The lawyer's only mistake was to appear on Tucker's show. To say the lawyer is hell bound is just irresponsible nonsense. To say you're not glad that lawyers exist is simply to propound an ignorant bias.

The lawyer's FIRST mistake was becoming a lawyer in the first place.

But that's your right. A right framed by and protected by the people you don't like. Go figure.

Freedom of speech is a God-given right, regardless of what a government or legal system says about it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I saw this on You-Tube earlier this morning and what stood out to me was the fact that this Attorney claimed, not to KNOW the character of the accused rapist, however, was assuming he KNEW the character of the alleged victim.

And such is the legal system of America.

The Attorney appeared anxious, sweaty and looked as if he felt very disturbed about what he was doing. He's going to have to PROVE that the rape was consensual, however, it appears (according to witnesses) that the girl was screaming and claimed to have been raped after her ordeal. The Attorney will also have to go after the "character" of the 14-year-old Girl. The two defendants are seventeen and eighteen years old and at least one of them was an illegal immigrant.

If we had a righteous Justice system, the girl would be given the benefit of the doubt and the man would be imprisoned until evidence could be gathered. The evidence would then be presented to the judge, and if it shows that the man is guilty of rape, the judge would sentence the man to death, and he would be executed within 48 hours of his sentencing. If, however, the evidence showed that the man did not rape her, but that the girl willingly had sex with him, the girl would be the one executed, for she falsely accused someone of a crime that is worthy of death. If perjury occurs, whatever punishment is at stake in a trial is given to the one who perjures themselves.

This would deter false accusations of a crime, for whatever the punishment for the crime would be brought upon the one who bears false witness against their neighbor.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Rather, when lawyers do their duty before the law it is in the service of justice.

How often do you think that justice is served in America? With the many thousands of cases occurring each year, how many of them do you think brought justice to the criminal, and comfort to the victim?

And why, if our system, if it's as just as you say it is, does our system not deter/prevent any crime from happening?

That's a perversion of the idiom. What "Justice is blind" means is that she is blind to power and its influence. All men stand equal in right and presumption before her and the law.

"This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice." - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
"In the Halls of Justice, the only justice is in the halls." - Lenny Bruce
"The United States is the greatest law factory the world has ever known" - Charles Evans Hughes
"The greater the number of laws... the more thieves and robbers there will be" - Lao-Tzu
"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced" - Frank Zappa
(more quotes to come, I guarantee it)

 

[JudgeRightly]

You'll not find "True Justice" in the courts of this world. Garbage like "Plea deals" for maniacs who murder people thereby, getting off with a light sentence isn't justice. That's only one example.

People who defend or assist criminals knowingly and willingly are called accomplices. They should be punished as if they themselves committed the crime.

Again, a deterrent, this one against helping criminals.

I know of a guy who purposely killed his Wife (shot her to death) and his Lawyer got him off on an "Insane Plea." He spent 4 years in a mental facility, was found to be "sane" again and was let out. He's now married and just living his life free as a bird. Is four years "Justice?"

He should have been executed after being found guilty of murder. The lawyer too, for helping him get away with murder. And dead within 48 hours of being captured.

It's kind of funny that one can "work the system" to get out of a murder charge or some other heinous crime, however, if you get a traffic ticket or Jaywalk, they throw the book at you. A wee bit of "Hyperbole."

A mindless system where justice is random and the law is god.