ECT Things that are different are not the same!

[Lazy afternoon]

The 12: As John the Baptist and Christ did, the 12 preached the Kingdom--an earthly, physical, theocratic government centered in a restored Jerusalem -- over which Christ the Messiah would reign as the undisputed, invincible King of all the earth:

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord (Jer. 3:17).

Out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem (Isa. 2:3).

Yea, all kings shall fall down before Him: all nations shall serve Him (Psalm 72:11).

The Lord shall be King over all the earth (Zech. 14:9).
​

Paul: Preached the Body: a living, spiritual organism of which Christ is the Head (Eph 2:22; 4:15-16; 5:23) with heaven rather than earth the focus.

No.

The rulership over the new creation people of the millennium, and over all nations will be the resurrected saints of the Kingdom of God, on earth.

You have it that God will restore a people under the law, which view Paul condemned as a false gospel in Galations.

LA

 

[Nang]

You said the kingdom of heaven was Christ crucified.
How did it suffer violence before the Lord was crucified?

You are not understanding what these scriptures are saying . . . there was no literal or harmful "violence" being referred to, but a crowding and a pressing of souls (Greek "biazo") into the promised Kingdom, that had been preached through both the Law and the Prophets, concerning the Messiah.

This depicts, to the unbelieving Pharisees, the fulfillment of all the Covenant promises of the Kingdom which was finally now at hand.

The prophecies of the Messiah were now forcefully realized and revealed to many, by Jesus' announcements of the Kingdom of Heaven having come, despite the Pharisees' unbelief and resistance.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The 12: Taught by Christ that they were still under the Law (Matt 5:18; 6:14-15; 19:35). They were to follow the instructions of the Pharisees (Matt 23:2-3) [insofar as the Pharisees' instruction was in line with the Scripture]. Even years later, during the Acts period, some Jewish Christians observed certain aspects of the Law (Acts 21:15-26).

Paul: Taught that all those in Christ are dead to the Law (Rom 3:22-23; 4:5; 8:1; Titus 3:5). Paul condemned the Judaizers (see Galatians) for attempting to imposing elements of the Law onto Gentile believers. Even the 12 eventually agreed that Gentile believers were not to be subjected to the Law (Acts 15:22-29).

Your view accepts that the Jews return to the law, which Paul condemned.

LA

 

[john w]

You do not even grasp the subject of discussion you think you are having . . .

No, I once again picked apart your "just one piece of good news" spam, exposed it as made up, showing you chapter and verse, in which to soak your Clavinist head, and all we get from you, is an emotional blubbering, and ...

 

[Nang]

No, I once again picked apart your "just one piece of good news" spam, exposed it as made up, showing you chapter and verse, in which to soak your Clavinist head, and all we get from you, is an emotional blubbering, and ...

John,

Someone needs to let you know, that you have not picked anything apart, and that you do not understand the scriptures.

Repent from all of this dispensational nonsense . . . it is not Godly knowledge, but only humanistic confusion, meant to distract souls from the Truth of Jesus Christ.

Nang

 

[john w]

You have it that God will restore a people under the law, which view Paul condemned as a false gospel in Galations. LA

Translated: Out with musterion's quoting the book ..

Out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem (Isa. 2:3).


You: the above should not be in the book.


Made up

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
Quote:
You have it that God will restore a people under the law, which view Paul condemned as a false gospel in Galations. LA


Translated: Out with musterion's quoting the book ..

Out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem (Isa. 2:3).


You: the above should not be in the book.


Made up

You claim the Jews return to the keeping of OT law in the millennium.

The law of Zion is not the law of the old covenant.

LA

 

[musterion]

The 12: Preached "the gospel to/for the circumcised."

Paul: Preached "the gospel to/for the uncircumcised."

 

[john w]

John,

Someone needs to let you know, that you have not picked anything apart, and that you do not understand the scriptures.

Repent from all of this dispensational nonsense . . . it is not Godly knowledge, but only humanistic confusion, meant to distract souls from the Truth of Jesus Christ.

Nang

More assertions, with no scripture to back it up, as I presented. Just ramblings, that say NADA, and emotional, kiddie crying...

Nope-it's all there, in print, for the viewers, to witness, my methodically dismantling you're "argument," that there is just one piece of good news in the book. If there is just "One Gospel...Same good news message," you are on record, as asserting that Judas preached:

1 Cor. 15:1-4 "the gospel"=Christ died for our sins..was buried...raised again for our justification...believe it to be saved.......

...since he did preach good news-Luke 9 KJV.



I also caught you lying, on this thread.You're in a ditch... on the matt

Stay down. You're up against the humble Rifleman, wolf-ette. I do not like wolf-ette's...John W I am.

 

[musterion]

The 12: Followed the pattern of salvation for Gentiles through God's use of an obedient Israel, conditional upon Israel's repentance of her King's murder (Acts 3:12-26).

Paul: Preached salvation for Jew and Gentile without distinction, by grace through faith, as the result of Israel's refusal to repent of Christ's murder (Rom 11:7-36).

 

[john w]

You claim the Jews return to the keeping of OT law in the millennium.

The law of Zion is not the law of the old covenant.

LA

"The law of Zion is not the law of the old covenant."-LostA

Made up-no such thing as "The law of Zion."

Slick....real slick....Your father, the devil, taught you well...First, take away from the book....then, change it.

 

[john w]

"You are not understanding what these scriptures are saying . . ."-Naggie to STP

She stumps us all with that debate ender.

 

[musterion]

The 12: Were the main figures in first 1/3 of Acts.

Paul: Was the main figure in the last 2/3 of Acts, with the 12 in the background if at all.

 

[john w]

You do not even grasp the subject of discussion you think you are having

. . .

Luke 9 KJV
1Then he called his twelve disciples together...... 6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel,...

Judas preached this "One Gospel," according to Naggie-1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV

Wicked Witchiepoo.

 

[musterion]

The 12: Preached the death of Christ as BAD news for Israel. Peter and Stephen, speaking by the Holy Spirit, indicted Israel for the murder of her King, commanding her to repent:

Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God TO YOU by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, and YOU YOURSELVES did know--Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, YOU have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death ... Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom YOU crucified, both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:22-36).

But YOU denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and killed the Prince of life...Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before (Acts 3:14-20).

We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom YOU murdered by hanging on a tree. Him God has exalted to His right hand, Prince and Savior, to give repentance TO ISRAEL and forgiveness of sin (Acts 5:29-31).

You stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! YOU always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do YOU. Which of the prophets did they not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom YOU now have become the betrayers and murderers (Acts 7:51-52).
​

Paul: Preached the death of Christ as GOOD news for individual Jews and Gentiles. Though Israel did not know it (no one did), her murder of Messiah was the one and only sacrifice that can reconcile all people to God:

For as you [Gentiles] were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through [Israel's] disobedience, even so [Israel] also has now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (Rom. 11:30-33)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God ... Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe (1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen (Gal. 1:3-5).

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe (Gal. 3:22).

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in Whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins (Col.1:13-14).
​

 

[musterion]

The 12: Sent by Christ specifically to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them..." (Matt. 28:19).

Paul: "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel" (1 Cor 1:17).



The 12: Taught by Christ that Kingdom believers had to be baptized in water for entrance into the Kingdom:

He who believes AND is baptized will be saved... (Mark 16:16)

...be baptized...FOR the remission of sins, AND YOU SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit...(Acts 2:38)

Arise and be baptized, AND wash away your sins... (Acts 22:16)
​

Paul: Taught the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 - by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ at salvation(1 Cor 12:13), without water.

 

[musterion]

The 12: Operated under Christ's promise that those who believe would have miraculous signs following them (snake-handling and poison-drinking, speaking languages they'd never studied, ability to heal the sick by touch, and the ability to cast out demons, Mark 16:14-18).

Paul: Taught that the Holy Spirit gave supernatural gifts for the edification of the Church (1 Cor 12:7) but gave no indication that all believers should expect to display all of the supernatural signs Christ foretold in Mark 16 (see 1 Cor 12:4, 1 Cor 12:30). Not only this, but Paul evidently lost the miraculous powers he once had (2 Tim 4:20). The reason: Miraculous signs were meant for Jews (1 Cor 1:22; 1 Cor 14:22) so when Israel made her final rejection of Christ, God withdrew the sign gifts. They remain withdrawn today and anything purporting to be sign gifts are faked or demonic counterfeits.

 

[musterion]

The 12: Taught about the Tribulation (the time of Jacob's [Israel's] Trouble) which is preceded by many signs. Taught nothing on the rapture of the Church, for it didn't yet exist nor was its existence yet revealed.

Paul: Taught all of what we know about the unpredictable rapture of the Church before the start of the Tribulation. Taught little if any on the Second Coming (because the Church, which is "not appointed to wrath," will not be here to see the Tribulation and is foretold to come back with Christ at His Second Coming).

 

[musterion]

Peter, James and John were not chosen by Christ to be apostles to the Gentiles. Paul alone was given that duty. To diminish, ignore or despise the apostleship of Paul is to despise the will of the Lord Who commissioned him.

 

[musterion]

The Gospel preached by the 12 required the work of water baptism in conjunction with faith.

vs

Paul's Gospel didn't require anything but faith.