These are NOT the same gospel

[glorydaz]

Hold the phone!

Either Peter was preaching option A for eternal salvation all along or he stopped preaching option A and started preaching option B.

Peter was preaching the gospel of the kingdom from beginning to end, as I read it.

Do you see him preaching anything about being a member of the body of Christ? Seems he was looking forward to the day his sins would be blotted out.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't see why this is an issue on either side of this debate. Neither Paul's nor Peter's gospel says we can worship other gods with impunity.

To even suggest that one who was sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise, who is God's workmanship could ever be lost, is just plain wrong.
It's the same as claiming we keep ourselves.

 

[musterion]

Peter et al confined their remaining ministry to Israel, while Paul would go forth unto the gentile world. These are Bible facts.

Given that restriction, at some point the Kingdom apostles would have encountered all the unsaved Jews in Israel who would ever hear their gospel "to the circumcision"...some time well before Paul had finished his course, I'd expect.

So to me, the question of what Peter and Paul were preaching at the same time is not the point. The important fact is that they split their ministries in opposite directions [Gal ch. 2]. That's what's important. Everything else should follow from that.

 

[musterion]

so do you think there's any benefit for Jews to choose one gospel over the other?

Totally misses the point, asking the wrong question.

If you're talking about today, there is only one gospel that saves. That's Paul's gospel, 1 Cor 15:3-4, which we never once see preached by any apostle besides Paul.

But if you're talking about during the Acts period, the question of which gospel was to be believed depended on who was preaching it and to whom they were preaching.

Peter James, and John, as much as Paul, were led by the Spirit to do what they did from Galatians 2 onward. To make it sound like Jews had a choice of which gospel to believe, like they were at a buffet, is astounding ignorance. They believed (or did not believe) the message preached by the one God sent TO THEM.

And we can know with 100% certainly which gospel that was.

One of those gospels was deactivated about 2,000 years ago, leaving the other gospel the only power of God unto salvation when believed.

 

[Idolater]

...One of those gospels was deactivated about 2,000 years ago

When?

 

[JudgeRightly]

When?

Acts 9. About one year after Christ's resurrection.

 

[glorydaz]

Totally misses the point, asking the wrong question.

If you're talking about today, there is only one gospel that saves. That's Paul's gospel, 1 Cor 15:3-4, which we never once see preached by any apostle besides Paul.

But if you're talking about during the Acts period, the question of which gospel was to be believed depended on who was preaching it and to whom they were preaching.

Peter James, and John, as much as Paul, were led by the Spirit to do what they did from Galatians 2 onward. To make it sound like Jews had a choice of which gospel to believe, like they were at a buffet, is astounding ignorance. They believed (or did not believe) the message preached by the one God sent TO THEM.

And we can know with 100% certainly which gospel that was.

One of those gospels was deactivated about 2,000 years ago, leaving the other gospel the only power of God unto salvation when believed.

I'm thinking in Acts 15....the Jerusalem counsel, I guess, they decided the Gentiles didn't have to be circumcised. That seems to have been a big step for them at the time. I think the first step for the Jews was to recognized Jesus as the Messiah (which was the gospel of the kingdom) , and the apostles were still busy doing that among the Jews. What think you?

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm thinking in Acts 15....the Jerusalem counsel, I guess, they decided the Gentiles didn't have to be circumcised. That seems to have been a big step for them at the time. I think the first step for the Jews was to recognized Jesus as the Messiah (which was the gospel of the kingdom) , and the apostles were still busy doing that among the Jews. What think you?

I'm thinking Acts 9, either the moment Paul converted, or particularly when Ananias #2 laid hands on Paul.

 

[musterion]

I'm thinking in Acts 15....the Jerusalem counsel, I guess, they decided the Gentiles didn't have to be circumcised. That seems to have been a big step for them at the time. I think the first step for the Jews was to recognized Jesus as the Messiah (which was the gospel of the kingdom) , and the apostles were still busy doing that among the Jews. What think you?

Could well be. Main thing I go by us that Peter and the Kingdom apostles vanish from the Acts record we'll before Luke ends it. There's a good reason for that.

Also, the addressees of Peter's letters and the way he mentions gentiles as a third party is a big tell.

 

[musterion]

When?

Well before the end of Acts.

 

[Tambora]

Which goes back to man being responsible for his own salvation....the keeping of it. Is that what you really believe?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

I believe that if you abandon faith in YHWH to have faith in another god then you ain't gonna make through the pearly gates.

 

[Tambora]

How is it you now preaching salvation by endurance instead of by grace through faith? When did this happen?

Endurance of living faith, not endurance of works.

 

[Tambora]

Peter was preaching the gospel of the kingdom from beginning to end, as I read it.

Then he preached option A all along.
So ask yourself why he would do that if option A no longer worked and option B was the only option that did work?

 

[Tambora]

To even suggest that one who was sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise, who is God's workmanship could ever be lost, is just plain wrong.
It's the same as claiming we keep ourselves.

Yu actually think no one has lost faith in YHWH?

 

[Tambora]

Peter et al confined their remaining ministry to Israel, while Paul would go forth unto the gentile world. These are Bible facts.

Given that restriction, at some point the Kingdom apostles would have encountered all the unsaved Jews in Israel who would ever hear their gospel "to the circumcision"...some time well before Paul had finished his course, I'd expect.

So to me, the question of what Peter and Paul were preaching at the same time is not the point. The important fact is that they split their ministries in opposite directions [Gal ch. 2]. That's what's important. Everything else should follow from that.

The apostle John ended up in Patmos and wrote letters to churches, none of which were in Israel.

 

[glorydaz]

Then he preached option A all along.
So ask yourself why he would do that if option A no longer worked and option B was the only option that did work?

I don't know why it would no longer work....for those it was meant for.
He was preaching the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews.
Faith and works is what he preached.

At what point exactly did God not allow faith and works for salvation?

We see it again during the Tribulation.

It's only those who are saved by grace through faith where works are not allowed for our salvation.

 

[musterion]

Endurance of living faith

That's Christ's work in us.

 

[musterion]

The apostle John ended up in Patmos and wrote letters to churches, none of which were in Israel.

Those churches don't exist yet, and John was an apostle of and to the circumcision.

 

[glorydaz]

I believe that if you abandon faith in YHWH to have faith in another god then you ain't gonna make through the pearly gates.

My faith is in Him....not my own ability to stay faithful.

• 2 Timothy 1:12
  For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
  
  
• 2 Timothy 2:13
  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[Idolater]

Acts 9. About one year after Christ's resurrection.

We went over this and over this.

@musterion